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Mikheil Saakashvili: A War Criminal

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posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 07:01 AM
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Mikheil Saakashvili: A War Criminal


www.antiwar.com

"The place that has suffered most is South Ossetia which is home to both ethnic Ossetians and Georgians, the latter accounting for about a third of the population. The destruction there has been appalling and it looks as though many hundreds of civilians have died, in the first place as a result of the initial Georgian assault of August 7-8. Gosha Tselekhayev, an Ossetian interpreter in Tskhinvali with whom I spoke by telephone on August 10 said, 'I am standing in the city center, but there's no city left.'

"Ossetians fleeing the conflict zone talk of Georgian atrocities and the indiscriminate killing of civilians."

(visit the link for the full news article)

Mod Edit: Breaking News Forum Submission Guidelines – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 16/8/2008 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 07:01 AM
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We need to wake up to the grim reality of western media manipulation: "Anything that doesn't fit into that storyline is cut from the script."

www.antiwar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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I couldn't agree more and have been preaching the same message.

Georgia started this whole thing and committed war atrocities in the process on their own supposed "territory" with their own supposed "people".

It would be like the USA bombing the state of Oklahoma to bits, killing many civilians, just because white supremecist armed groups had begun small scale attacks on federal targets, and civilian selected targets.

It is just an irrationally overwhelming response .. and we hear the newscaster repeating Condie Rice when she says that Russia's response has been disporportionate in scale. Yeah right. Bombing Tbillisi immediately is called disproportionate. Thats what Georgia did immediately to South Ossetia, destroyed the capital city? Russian troops never came within 50km of Tbillisi.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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I really wanted to say something loud and profound/profain here, but the ignorance of this post leaves me speechless..............




posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by ergoli


We need to wake up to the grim reality of western media manipulation: "Anything that doesn't fit into that storyline is cut from the script."

www.antiwar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



Excuse me? As if this rule of propaganda is isolated to western media?

Puhlease... what kind of bias are you trying to perpetrate here?



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by runetang
I couldn't agree more and have been preaching the same message.

Georgia started this whole thing and committed war atrocities in the process on their own supposed "territory" with their own supposed "people".




Really? So what are your thoughts on these russians firing on Turkish Journalists?




posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by ergoli
 


Great post!!

Of course as usual, both the Necons from the left and right are crawling out of the woodwork and talk of giving Saakashvili the Nobel Peace prize and firebombing Moscow.

[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by ergoli
 


Great post!!

Of course as usual, both the Necons from the left and right are crawling out of the woodwork and talk of giving Saakashvili the Nobel Prize for Peace and firebombing Moscow.



Russia needs to be stopped.

They threatened Poland with a nuclear strike.


In my book that is tantamount to using one. Nukes should NEVER be used as a threat, only a deterrent. Any government who openly threatens another with a nuclear stirke should immediately be criminalized and removed from power.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by Quazga
 


My Neocon-leftist friend,

What should be done, do you propose? Let me guess WW3?

And remind me again, why is it in the interest of the American people to go die of for Georgia? Then after that you can tell us how it is in the American people's interest to attack Iran?



[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by Quazga
 


actually they look like georgians firing and rifle attacking them



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by Quazga
 



Russia needs to be stopped.


You suffering from Amnesia buddy?

Take a look at your own friggin' backyard; 2 pointless quagmires well underway with a 3rd in the works.

And Russia needs to be "stopped" does it?



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by Quazga
 


My Neocon-leftist friend,

[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gateway]


What the hell is a "Neocon-leftist"


Another shocking example of the naivite that exists on ATS. People throwing around words when it is obvious to everyone else that they don't have a clue as to their meaning.

Hint: "Neocon" is short for "Neo-Conservative"


Oh, and uh, conservatives are considered to be on the right side of the political spectrum.

Stick around and we can teach you what your high school teachers have failed to do.


Now, let's go after the real war criminal in this issue - Russia's Putin.


[edit on 8/16/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Neo-Conservative = New Conservative.

NeoConservatives derive their philosophical roots from Marxist leftist ideology, they were followers of Trotsky's philosophical view of foreign intervention through perpetual "revolutions". These, leftist ideologues (particular Jewish intellectuals) left the Democratic party because they perceived the Liberal democrats were loosing their tastes for more pro-active involvement throughout the world in foreign intervention.

Thus, these leftists ultimately slithered their way into the Republican party and started to refer to themselves as Neoconservative. Where they combined their policy of larger Federal Government to effect both domestic and foreign. These Neoconservatives have kept to their original beliefs, i.e. larger and proactive federal government in both domestic and foreign affairs to achieve their desired goals. And thus rejected the old conservative philosophy now referred to as paloconservativism, which was small Federal government and non-interventionist policy.

The Democrats have to some degree always been more proactive with a larger central government. They've always believed in a STRONG and huge federal government, and also apply this philosophy to their foreign policy. Leftist believe, as in their domestic policy of intervening and correcting what "IT" perceived is wrong, and duly apply this belief in their foreign policy.

So, when I refer to Neoconservative leftists I'm accurately describing the likes of, Pelosi, Obama, Lieberman, and now it appears YOU. Since all of YOU, are clamoring for further foreign intervention, and thirsting for Russian blood.

Sorry for the history lesson, but it appears that you did not cover this topic in your studies.




Stick around and we can teach you what your high school teachers have failed to do.

I appreciate the fact that you hold your high school education with high regard, but I'm afraid some of us have gone beyond our GED certificate, to pursue higher studies.



[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:57 AM
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Sorry folks. You're wrong.

Total dead in South Ossetia: 45

oilandglory.com...

Stop believing the lies coming from Russia. They even admit they are lying:

www.timesonline.co.uk...



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:07 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.




Russia needs to be stopped.

They threatened Poland with a nuclear strike.


No..they didn't. This is some of the worst hyperbole yet from the MSM. They're making it seem as if Russia has put their finger on the trigger over this issue, when the reality is just an adjustment of coordinates in case doomsday ever comes.

They said that by allowing American ABM tech to set up in their country, Poland becomes a target in the event of a nuclear exchange. This is common doctrine. The first priority in a nuclear exchange is to target the nukes and ABM capabilities of the other side, no?

It wasn't as if Russia said "if you put those there we'll nuke you!"

As far as the War Criminal charges, it certainly appears that way.

The information coming out of the area is so confused and contradictory it's impossible to know what's really going on, but the freaking guy ordered a city leveled. Troops under his command apparently murdered civilians and committed crimes ranging from arson to child rape (if you believe that story).

It certainly can be assumed that both sides in the conflict are misrepresenting the truth, or outright lying, to fit their agenda and encourage international sympathy. Time will tell, I suppose, who is lying the most.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 04:26 AM
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USA has no friends among war criminals. A person cannot be both "friend of USA" and "war ciminal"

(joke
)

[edit on 17-8-2008 by pai mei]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by Gateway
 


I believe that according to the T&C here, you need to show quotes cut and pasted from websites or high school textbooks as external quotes and show the source to avoid any plagarism issues. You might want to clear that up while you can still edit your last post.

Another one of your
statements is this one:


So, when I refer to Neoconservative leftists I'm accurately describing the likes of, Pelosi, Obama, Lieberman, and now it appears YOU.


Lieberman in the same philosophical camp is O(bs)ama and Pelosi??? And even more hilarious, to you they are all "neocons".


Now about my contention that Putin is the real war criminal here. If Bush must be labeled as such, surely Putin's actions fall under the same definition as applied to Bush. Add to that now, Putin's lightly vield threat to target Poland with nuclear weapons for the "crime" of stationing ABM defenses there.

Yes, it seems that Putin's dream of reviving the brutal soviet empire are alive and well and just waiting for any (trumped up) opportunity to reconquer a former province or warsaw pact satellite country.

[edit on 8/17/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 06:01 PM
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post by Gateway I believe that according to the T&C here, you need to show quotes cut and pasted from websites or high school textbooks as external quotes and show the source to avoid any plagarism issues. You might want to clear that up while you can still edit your last post.


I can see that ignorance is truly abound here on ATS, as you have already mentioned. I'm afraid that there is no plagiarism here. I just briefly summed up for you the history of the neocons as quickly as I could. High school textbooks don't cover this topic, my dear boy. As I've mentioned before, this is higher learning. History of political science, of political parties here in the U.S., of socialism and its evolution through our political system.

If you don't believe me you may use the layman's learning tool, Wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org...

Even the CFR, has a brief article on the subject matter:

Trotskyism to Anachronism: The Neoconservative Revolution]Trotskyism to Anachronism: The Neoconservative Revolution

www.foreignaffairs.org...

Personally, I would rather you not get your education from pedestrian resources, such as Wiki. I recommend these books, as a good starting point:

www.amazon.com...

or

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219014355&sr=8-2




Another one of your
statements is this one: Lieberman in the same philosophical camp is O(bs)ama and Pelosi??? And even more hilarious, to you they are all "neocons".



Hmm, I see that you make "0" effort to take the time to look at what I wrote.
Please read, from the Joe Lieberman, home page regarding his opinions on issues. I don't have time to cite every single issue, but as you can see for yourself, he can hardly be called the opposite of Obama or Pelosi. ALL favor a strong central government to influence domestic as well as foreign policy, ALL believe in maintaining the status-quo with regards to Israel, All also believe in maintaining the current monetary system, with the Federal Reserve in charge, All believe in more Federal involvement into Health Care (through subsidies or through the increase of Federal powers),...etc...etc...etc

lieberman.senate.gov...

Please address just how Lieberman, is NOT like Obama or Pelosi.



Now about my contention that Putin is the real war criminal here. If Bush must be labeled as such, surely Putin's actions fall under the same definition as applied to Bush. Add to that now, Putin's lightly vield threat to target Poland with nuclear weapons for the "crime" of stationing ABM defenses there. Yes, it seems that Putin's dream of reviving the brutal soviet empire are alive and well and just waiting for any (trumped up) opportunity to reconquer a former province or warsaw pact satellite country.


You're proposing more of the same, more of the Necon tripe of foreign intervention that we've been having for the past eight years. Perhaps you and the rest of the Neocons would be happy in the invasion of Russia, so that we may bring Putin to a court of justice, like Saddam Hussein? How does that sound?

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by Riposte
 


and this claim came from HRW , which provides no proof on its research and ignores thousands of ossetian refugges testonomies , check this thread :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and as usual , the western media and HRW claims are flimsy at best , as they do not disclose the identity of so called alleged doctor who made

which , seems that HRW is spewinf propaganda , like other western media outlets , which are spewing one sided propaganda in favour of WEst




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