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The United States has lost its moral authority

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posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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i dont see the parallel to be honest.

invading a democracy who threatened NOBODY , i.e. Georgia, is somehow morally equivalent to invading and overthrowing a fascist , corrupt, and psychopathic regime like Saddam Hussein's?

if that is the case, then the invasion of Poland by Hitler is morally equivalent to the invasion of Normandy in '44.

i think some folks have lost their moral compass here.




posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by TheOracle
People tend to forget that the UN didnt not approve of the US attacking Iraq. No resolution allowing force whatsoever, thats why Bush and his pals went in alone.
So yeah they broke international law by invading a sovereign country.


but the U.S. congress voted on it.

do you really want the UN to determine U.S. foreign policy? a UN who stood by when Rwanda happened?



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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invading a democracy who threatened NOBODY , i.e. Georgia, is somehow morally equivalent to invading and overthrowing a fascist , corrupt, and psychopathic regime like Saddam Hussein's?



Georgia attacked Russia. Georgia declared War on Russia.

Georgia opposed Russia's best interests by doing the aforementioned.


Russia over reacted, yes. But Russia has a right to protect its self just like Israel does.

But only when it fits an agenda, apparently.... :shk:



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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The US had moral authority to begin with?

This is news to me.

But yeah, I think we can only expect things to go downhill from here.

[edit on 17-8-2008 by GorehoundLarry]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by LoveKnowledge
Lost its moral authority? The Moral Authority was always an illusion. America has NEVER had a Moral Authority. Such things are nationalistic fabrications.

[edit on 16-8-2008 by LoveKnowledge]
very true,LoveKnowledge it's the nationalist mentality that ultimately brought down every empire in history looks like it's our turn.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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Moral equivalence?

Iraq was dictatorship. Georgia is a democracy.
Iraq was in violation of a cease fire from Desert Storm. Georgia didn't violate a cease fire.

Why is no one saying "Putin lied, Georgians died!"?

It is a good thing when the 5th Columnists expose themselves. It makes round them up easier.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by redmage
 

Your argument does not hold water.

1. Changes to treaties that are not re-ratified are not binding.

2. The US invaded Iraq in accordance with many UN resolutions.

3. Regime change in Iraq is a legitimate response to hundred's (if not thousands) of Desert Storm Cease Fire violations. There is no requirement to seek anyone's approval to enforce a cease fire.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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Stop it, stop it, stop it!


Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated seventeen United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) designed to ensure that Iraq does not pose a threat to international peace and security. In addition to these repeated violations, he has tried, over the past decade, to circumvent UN economic sanctions against Iraq, which are reflected in a number of other resolutions. As noted in the resolutions, Saddam Hussein was required to fulfill many obligations beyond the withdrawal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. Specifically, Saddam Hussein was required to, among other things: allow international weapons inspectors to oversee the destruction of his weapons of mass destruction; not develop new weapons of mass destruction; destroy all of his ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers; stop support for terrorism and prevent terrorist organizations from operating within Iraq; help account for missing Kuwaitis and other individuals; return stolen Kuwaiti property and bear financial liability for damage from the Gulf War; and he was required to end his repression of the Iraqi people. Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated each of the following resolutions:


Gassed his own people. Fired on legal UN overflights, payed suicide bombers.

This is beside the point. "Blame America first."
America is the best thing in the world.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by netron
 



i dont see the parallel to be honest.

invading a democracy who threatened NOBODY , i.e. Georgia, is somehow morally equivalent to invading and overthrowing a fascist , corrupt, and psychopathic regime like Saddam Hussein's?

if that is the case, then the invasion of Poland by Hitler is morally equivalent to the invasion of Normandy in '44.

i think some folks have lost their moral compass here.


Georgia threatened nobody? I suggest you read some of the news around. Georgia is the one who attack South Ossetia and brought this on themselves.

For a lot of video evidence I suggest: war.georgia.su...
Make no mistake, Saakashvili isn't much better than Hussein...



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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When do we think America loose it's moral authority?

I for one believe it was maybe when we targeted 2 civilian targets / cities
with atomic weapons.

What word would we use to describe someone who dropped nuclear weapons on New York & L.A. ?

The U.S. Government perpetrated the Largest terrorist attack in history with WMD's.

Agree or not it's true.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 09:30 PM
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"Lost its moral authority? The Moral Authority was always an illusion. America has NEVER had a Moral Authority. Such things are nationalistic fabrications. "

Well said. We never had it to lose. As a nation we have interests. not morals or moral authority



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by netron

Originally posted by TheOracle
People tend to forget that the UN didnt not approve of the US attacking Iraq. No resolution allowing force whatsoever, thats why Bush and his pals went in alone.
So yeah they broke international law by invading a sovereign country.


but the U.S. congress voted on it.

do you really want the UN to determine U.S. foreign policy? a UN who stood by when Rwanda happened?



The UN was supposed to be about keeping peace within the world. World peace will never exist. Why? Because in order for World Peace to come in to play no one would disagree. And if they did disagree they would have to be okay with being wrong. World peace is attained through money these days. No money? Then you are wrong. Take a look at the world.

"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder."-George Washington

"May our country be always successful, but whether successful or otherwise, always right."-John Quincy Adams

I believe the UN is very questionable as the government officals who talk about the New World Order tuck the UN snug inot their plans.

"I would support a Presidential candidate who pledged to take the following steps: ... At the end of the war in the Persian Gulf, press for a comprehensive Middle East settlement and for a 'new world order' based not on Pax Americana but on peace through law with a stronger U.N. and World Court."

George McGovern,
in The New York Times (February 1991)


"It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance."

President George Bush
addressing the General Assembly of the U.N.,
February 1,1992
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Highly emotional statements like this one are VERY suspect. It is unlkely any person who was pro-NWO would use that kind of terminology or make that kind of statement even if that were their Luciferian philosophy. Further, we must note that the statement is undated and no source is given. It is these types emotional statements that prevent rational discussion of the issues. See below.]

"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."

For more info go to:

www.webpal.org...



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by FRIGHTENER
 



You are absolutely right ....

Our President has no right to call out Russia for their actions when He has done questionable things.

As far as America having lost its "Moral Compass", we are now a land of Mutli-Culturialism. We have NO MORAL Compass as long as we have lost our IDENTITY, which we have done. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs of our founding fathers. That has gotten lost, along with our language and our core belief structures. America has been handed to the LOST causing us to become LOST.

There is NO LIGHT ON !



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by FRIGHTENER
 



Actually what gets to me the worst is, elected politicians bought out by private interest


Well put, marg, STAR!

I love America. I despise the corporate lobby and any of their pay-as-you
legislate representitives & or congressmen/women! It is a 'conflict of
interest' , plain & simple.





[edit on 8/17/2008 by FRIGHTENER]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by kindred

I would be totally embarrassed if I were an American.


[edit on 16-8-2008 by kindred]


Thanks for being such a jerk, kind of ironic were talking about morals and all, when did Europeans become such snobby elitists, maybe they have always been like this and I am just now old enough to notice it. Our government may be up to something and it is surely involved with your governments, and if all this is true then NATO is the hub of the NWO. Russians have a right to be peeved, but it seems that Europe is turning against them aswell.

Anyway, all I really was gonna say was lets blame gov'ts here and not the people. I am certainly not embarrassed. Lets not pretend that the EU isn't under the same kind of censorship, influence and control.






[edit on 18-8-2008 by Sheeper]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by FRIGHTENER
 


The only good Russia is a nuked Russia. I live in a USAF town and have heard that from men that prepare for war with Russia every day. They are smart, and know more truth about recent world events then we ever will.

I will take their stand



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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Thanks everyone, for giving me so much good reading tonight, I
appreciate it.

My opinion about whether the U.S.A. ever had any moral authority is:
I believe we DID, during and after WWII. Thanks to the greatest gener-
ation who fought, sacrificed, and died for American freedom.

It waned severely on November 22nd, 1963 at about 12:30pm. when
John F. Kennedy was so cowardly assassinated, and the military &
industrial complex was strengthened to the point of no return!

Today, any remaining moral auth. is nearly completely wiped out.

Now, I'll make a few direct mentions of/to some of my fellow ATSer's-

Interestinggg- Nero and Caligula? Loved that!! LOL, rock on!

Maxmars- As usual, great intellect, real deep and thorough, thanks! (I'd
hate to be in your crosshairs!)

jam321- Help! is right! Semper Fi, friend.

Evisscerator- You hit the nails right on the head! er, Should I say: PINS!?!?


and

Constantwonder- I thought the criticism by Mary MacElveen was for Bush;
and NOT the American people! But I DO love your zeal in defending your
countrymen! Stay fiesty, it's the best way to stir the hornets!



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 05:14 AM
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When Bush invaded Iraq in 2003 for B.S. reasons Bush lost his moral authority.

When the American people re-elected Bush in 2004, America lost it's moral authority.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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I nearly throw up in my mouth a little when I hear Bush, Rice, or McCain go off about how nations don't attack sovereign nations in the 21st century. How do they do this and keep a straight face is beyond me: they KNOW they are lying, and they know they can get away with it because so many Americans lack the ability to think critically about anything except who they're going to vote for on American Idol.






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