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Will evil return after the Reign of Christ?

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posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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Evil has always been and will always be.....God is as much evil as he is good.
God made man in his image or so the crap goes,if thats the case then man never had a chance. Lets face it God says he is jealous, an evil trait which has caused no end of evil in the world.He said he is merciful yet destroys cities and kills people all because he classes them evil.....what the! Isn't that an evil act in itself?
You cannot have light without dark so no matter what the son tries to do daddy already caused it...so yes evil will always be just as good will always be but who are we to judge.




posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Sopwith
God is as much evil as he is good....who are we to judge.


Apparently, you are someone to judge, for your post is a judgment about the nature of God.

Why do individuals always throw the judgmentalism argument around like it is some kind of trump? We all make judgments constantly, including you. Why do you pretend that you don't?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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Yes evil will return even with Christ present.

1000 years after the events of the Tribulation you have the war of Gog and Magog, some say there are two different Gog and Magog wars one in the present lifetime and another 1000year ahead to come.

What will happen is man will be more pure on Earth but God will let Satan out of the bag for one last round.
_________________________________________________________

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
__________________________________________________________

Note hell is not the lake of fire, hell is another dimention of torment and the lake of fire is what people have been calling hell and they are seperate things, thats what I think.


[edit on 19-8-2008 by The time lord]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by justamomma
...Well, for arguements sake, lets hypothetically say the bible is a book to be paid attention to when it comes to prophecy. I find the first line of your post laughable considering that if you take the bible at its word and not your interpretation, pre trib rapture is a load of bs that can't be found ANYWHERE in the bible. ...

*sigh*. And YOUR interpretation is correct, right?

If the bible isn't a "book to be paid attention to when it comes to prophecy", then all we are doing is discussing a "fictional" story, right? So, if that's the case, STFU and let us discuss our fictional story.

So, you have claimed that the "pre trib rapture is a load of bs". Prove it. You made the claim, prove it. Show us the verses that show the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation. I've already conceded that it could occur pre or mid. You must show how it it will occur post.

Mind you, you have a very, very difficult hurdle to overcome, as I already showed that the rapture is swift, sudden, and UNEXPECTED. "No man knows the day or hour..." Yet, oddly enough, we KNOW when Jesus returns to earth for the final time. EVERYONE knows it: 1,260 days after the beast sits in the temple and declares that he is God.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by justamomma
So, you have claimed that the "pre trib rapture is a load of bs". Prove it. You made the claim, prove it. Show us the verses that show the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation. I've already conceded that it could occur pre or mid. You must show how it it will occur post.


It is not the interpretation that the early Church took from John's Revelation and it was delivered to them. It is a recent innovation of men trying to reinvent Christianity.

Some people claimed that Chernobyl was wormwood, and had crazy ideas about comet Hale-Bopp too. It was all BS. At least justamomma is being honest in her critique, and is not succumbing to mass hysteria or buying into pulp fiction which only causes people to dismiss the real content of the Christian message; she is not a sucker.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Correct me if I am wrong, but the bible doesn't speak about the tree of knowledge being around again. How could it? Once bitten, the knowledge is imparted and can't be taken back. We have the knowledge.... the awareness of a dividing line btw good and evil. The innocence is gone and can't be regained until we learn through our experiences how to rid ourselves of that dividing line. (the only tree I have read about that will be in the midst of those who live on is the tree of life.. which i don't take as a literal picture being portrayed, but rather a figurative way to explain a very deep idea).


According to the Bible, a Cherub with a flaming sword was placed by God at the gates of the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve were banished from it. (Genesis 3:24) There is nothing said about the Tree of Knowledge being removed.


The trees are symbolic. Since we have already bitten the fobidden fruit and gained awarenes, that awareness will always exist so long as we exist. If you continue to live on in some fairy tale perfect earth (or heaven for those that are christian but ignorant to what they bible actually says about where they will be for eternity) you will still be aware and at any point you will be able to have the desire and even be able to try to act on the desire of placing yourself above god.


"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." (Rev. 22:14-15

Logically, it can only be symbolic. Inspired by Idioms in the Bible Explained by Lamsa, I'd say the fruit of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil is referring to Eve's sexual organ. (See also Songs of Solomon.) Going one step further in deduction, the Tree of life is perfect Adam and the Tree of Knowledge is perfect Eve.


Be consistent at the very least when using the bible to base your beliefs on. Did Lucifer take a bite of the tree before he decided to exalt himself? If you answer yes, where did you read that or was that just a speculation?


Lucifer "fell from grace" when he conspired against God and attempted to make himself higher than God and Adam and Eve.

When fallen man is engrafted into the Tree of life, the bond cannot be broken. The key is figuring out what this wild vines engrafting into the true vine parable is all about. What is the process. What does it symbolize? Is it like when a human egg is fertilze, the egg seals up and no other sperm can enter? Will evil be dispelled once this event takes place between one fallen person and "perfect Adam?"

This is but a discussion based on the given symbols of the canonical bible. There may be other missing pieces, considering the input of other religious scriptures and lost books of eden.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by justamomma
This is but a discussion based on the given symbols of the canonical bible. There may be other missing pieces, considering the input of other religious scriptures and lost books of eden.


Right... and the flood of Noah was a wet dream. I am followin' ya dude.

You got any Cheetos? I got dibs on the bong water!



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by ScienceDada

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by justamomma
This is but a discussion based on the given symbols of the canonical bible. There may be other missing pieces, considering the input of other religious scriptures and lost books of eden.


Right... and the flood of Noah was a wet dream. I am followin' ya dude.

You got any Cheetos? I got dibs on the bong water!


And that flaming sword keeping us out of the Garden of Eden? Right, you guessed it. It's a penis. And the serpent? Yep. Another one.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Logically, it can only be symbolic. Inspired by Idioms in the Bible Explained by Lamsa, I'd say the fruit of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil is referring to Eve's sexual organ. (See also Songs of Solomon.) Going one step further in deduction, the Tree of life is perfect Adam and the Tree of Knowledge is perfect Eve.


That makes sense to me, to a point: Why would God give them their respective pleasure/sex organs but expect them not to be used? That again begs the question, did he *plan* the fall in the first place?


Lucifer "fell from grace" when he conspired against God and attempted to make himself higher than God and Adam and Eve....
This is but a discussion based on the given symbols of the canonical bible. There may be other missing pieces, considering the input of other religious scriptures and lost books of eden.


Most of the people in this discussion would take it as anecdotal evidence at the very best, but the Koran elaborates a bit:

[18:50] We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord. Will you choose him and his descendants as lords instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? What a miserable substitute!


So that is interesting to think about. It always seemed a little iffy to me that Satan would simply decide that he wanted to be better than God without an instance of perceived injustice.

I do not think that evil will every truly be eradicated, though.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by asmeone2]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2



Logically, it can only be symbolic. Inspired by Idioms in the Bible Explained by Lamsa, I'd say the fruit of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil is referring to Eve's sexual organ. (See also Songs of Solomon.) Going one step further in deduction, the Tree of life is perfect Adam and the Tree of Knowledge is perfect Eve.


That makes sense to me, to a point: Why would God give them their respective pleasure/sex organs but expect them not to be used? That again begs the question, did he *plan* the fall in the first place?


It seems logical that they were supposed to mature to adulthood first. Having sex too early can be emotionally damaging. Just look at the mess teen pregnancy causes on families and society.

God planned the fall? It almost seems that way, if God can see the future.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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The most ancient text I have seen refer to all the arch angels as taking thefall before all is said and done...

After Lucifer long in the future will be Gabriel, then Michael and so on...

Man is g-ds chosen because only the Angel Metatron who was raised from Enoch stands at g-ds side until the very end, all the Angels eventually rebel and Encoh "The son of Man" keeps g-ds faith

Many people in Judaism who believe in Christ actually believe that Enoch/Metatron/Christ are one in the same... Born a man made an Angel the one true son of g-d for his faith returned as Christ to return again as the Messiah



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by sir_chancealot
 


I take it for what it is. If this book is inspired by god, how can you interpret theories that oppose another persons theories and say that YOURS are the right theories? That causes dischord among followers and divides to conquer, does it not?

So, when interpreting the bible on a grander scale (rapture, etc), the only right way to do it is to read it as is. Any one can take a verse here, a few there, splice them together and come up with interpretations on how the end will play out. But was that really what god said? apparently not if the bible is the inspired word.... that was you saying that the bible is laid out wrong and this is how *YOU* see it.


The personal revelations that he gives you, such as things to be applied to your life, are meant for you but not necessarily for anyone else and maybe in that sense, you will find reference from one verse to another.

But the only thing that will come about in ppl trying to interpret what will happen to the world as a whole based on vs being chopped and spliced together is ppl with many different interpretations and confusion will ensue.... much as we have here in today's world.

Take it for what it says where the world is concerned and there isn't much to argue on



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Among certain cultists and sects .... there is a belief that the anointed shall rise, meaning a group of people anointed with the traditional oils as the recipes found indicate... more so I believe it will be those individuals who have had break-through experiences with certain ancient sacraments, we like to make these stories and religious texts say something that isn't there, we make them into fairy tales without looking at our history our currently warped society to see which direction this has all taken, .. where anyone who thinks a little bit different or views things slightly "psychedelic" shall we say, is a child/mental patient, even if it is purely a religious experience... we have demonized any and almost all thinking of this nature. The harmony we once had with our surroundings directly illustrated by the shaman and mystics of our past has all but turned into an outcast group of eccentrics who are now looked down upon, quite the opposite motivation from our past, where "special" people were given a position in the community where they could contribute and be a working part of the community.
All I can think of is George Herbert Walker Bush's speech about the NWO ... The Rule of Law, Not the Law of the Jungle will rule the world....??

I believe it will be the shaman/mystics/eccentrics/esoteric that will rise up and show the world a new way that will be followed for times to come, until .. yes "evil" or shall we say stupidity will come back and plague us, but we should be prepared by then to deal with it.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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It seems logical that they were supposed to mature to adulthood first. Having sex too early can be emotionally damaging. Just look at the mess teen pregnancy causes on families and society.

God planned the fall? It almost seems that way, if God can see the future.


No, it doesn't; that is reading a lot into the text. Babies and children do not have the capability to take care of themselves. I would assume them to be adults in the Garden. We really don't know for sure, though, just as we don't know how long they were there.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2



It seems logical that they were supposed to mature to adulthood first. Having sex too early can be emotionally damaging. Just look at the mess teen pregnancy causes on families and society.

God planned the fall? It almost seems that way, if God can see the future.


No, it doesn't; that is reading a lot into the text. Babies and children do not have the capability to take care of themselves. I would assume them to be adults in the Garden. We really don't know for sure, though, just as we don't know how long they were there.


We're both assuming. You're assuming they were adults. I'm assuming they were teenagers and not fully developed mentally, physically and emotionally. I base my assumption on an understanding that the purpose of the archangel Lucifer was to take care of raising up Adam and Eve until they were completely matured. Also, I'm deducing the age based on the age of Mary at the time of Jesus' birth, as there are parallels of purpose between Jesus and Adam. (first Adam; last Adam)



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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We're both assuming. You're assuming they were adults. I'm assuming they were teenagers and not fully developed mentally, physically and emotionally. I base my assumption on an understanding that the purpose of the archangel Lucifer was to take care of raising up Adam and Eve until they were completely matured. Also, I'm deducing the age based on the age of Mary at the time of Jesus' birth, as there are parallels of purpose between Jesus and Adam. (first Adam; last Adam)


Where, in the Bible, does it state that Lucifer was supposed to take care of them, and how old Mary was?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2



We're both assuming. You're assuming they were adults. I'm assuming they were teenagers and not fully developed mentally, physically and emotionally. I base my assumption on an understanding that the purpose of the archangel Lucifer was to take care of raising up Adam and Eve...


Where, in the Bible, does it state that Lucifer was supposed to take care of them, and how old Mary was?


It doesn't say. But don't you see what Matrix1111 is saying? Lucifer was their podiatrist. That is why Jesus has to defeat him, because Satan "bruised his heel." It is all clear from the inferences.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111 There may be other missing pieces, considering the input of other religious scriptures and lost books of eden.


This is very true. There are many texts that have been found hidden away that fill in very important gaps and leaves one to wonder. WhY and what was the intent for the bible as we have been given it. Why is this what we were allowed to have while others had to be protected for fear that they would be destroyed? What weren't we supposed to know?


(just some off topic questions in light of that very true statement)



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:06 PM
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It doesn't say. But don't you see what Matrix1111 is saying? Lucifer was their podiatrist. That is why Jesus has to defeat him, because Satan "bruised his heel." It is all clear from the inferences.


I don't really see.

If God was omnipotent he would have known that Lucifer was evil and would not have sent him to raise Adam and Eve.

Or, he would have known, and sent him, but this would mean that he intended for the Fall to happen.

Really I just want to see scriptural evidence for Lucifer babysitting them.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2Or, he would have known, and sent him, but this would mean that he intended for the Fall to happen.


I think it is apparent anyway that he set up the fall to take place if you take the account of genesis at its word. That or I am smarter than god. Take your pick. Either way him setting up the fall or him being that stupid, the account in genesis alone doesn't paint the picture of god in a very good light, IMO.



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