Unmarried couple having sex is the same as a human having sex with an animal?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by funky monk

 

Why was it ridiculous? This is why:

Therefore in the eyes of God these sins are seen as the same.

This is an opinion and a ridiculous one at that!

Oh, and btw, in this forum we assume God is real for sake of the argument.

If you have questions that deal with the existence of God or want to ask if Mohammed actually was a real person or a myth, then please start a new discussion with a meaningful, appropriate title and you may then dominate a new discussion with this theme in mind. Please do not interject into deeper religious topics the question of the reality of a higher being? Unless stated in the topic, we are assuming in this forum that we've moved on past that point. Imagine discussing algebra while someone keeps interjecting that they still don’t believe in addition. The very reason that classes such as these have prerequisites is so new ground can be covered in the subject.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

reply to post by NOTurTypical




Did CHRIST convert many souls by being patronizing and rude?

I forgot to add arrogant.




[edit on 21-8-2008 by whaaa]

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Oh, and btw, in this forum we assume God is real for sake of the argument.

ok. for the sake of the arguement we believe that 'god' exists, (a completely irrelevant arguement in my book, but....),

Now prove that the Bible are his wishes and commands, verbatim, which must be obeyed unconditionally, rather than a very heavily edited book, written by MEN, who think THEY have the correct interpretation of gods wishes and demands.
And, if that is so, how is two consenting, single, adults having pre-maritial sex equally as sinful as beasiality.
Chapter and verse.
No interpretation.
Actual words.

Dogma!

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Did CHRIST convert many souls by being patronizing and rude.

Christ was extremely confrontational with the hypocrites.

Did you see me try and convert EB? I don't think I did. I pointed out his blatant hypocrisy and he didn't like eating what he was dishing out and threw an e-temper tantrum.

That's not my problem.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Did you see me try and convert EB? I don't think I did. I pointed out his blatant hypocrisy and he didn't like eating what he was dishing out and threw an e-temper tantrum.

Well I guess there is plenty of Blatant hypocrisy to go around. Especially from those "What would Jesus do" Christians that are acting like dicks.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


What are you on about with regards to God? I believe in God. I have God in my life. I have God in me. You haven't a clue what you are talking about friend. I can believe in God and also believe that the bBible is nothing more than a rag...especially the New Testament which is nothing but a blatant attempt by men to control other men. The New Testament is a joke.

I can also believe in God and not believe Jesus to be His son or the messiah. I am not sure if Jesus even ever existed. Jesus (the messiah) was created by men to control men. The NEW GOD as it were. What is wrong with just plain old God? I think Jesus is a false god...again, created by men to start a new religion so all you sheeple can be controlled. Be careful...God discussed what happens when you worship false gods. OH BOY! You all might be going down, not up.

Now, when is someone going to take on Freeborn's challenge?

I will remind everyone:

Now prove that the Bible are his wishes and commands, verbatim, which must be obeyed unconditionally, rather than a very heavily edited book, written by MEN, who think THEY have the correct interpretation of gods wishes and demands.
And, if that is so, how is two consenting, single, adults having pre-maritial sex equally as sinful as beastiality.
Chapter and verse.
No interpretation.
Actual words.

Anyone care to take this on? Thumpers? No one cares to thump on this?

I have God in me and God directs my life. I don't need to listen to nonsense from zombies about how murder is the same as two consenting, non-married adults having sex, or that having sex with an animal is the same as two consenting non-married adults having sex. This way of thinking is pathetic and sad and I could care less what the bible says (or what thumpers say it says).

And my God...I have to laugh at whoever threw out the threat that if we don't do what the bible says we're going to hell. I will buy that story when God tells it to me Himself. I'm not going to listen to some thumper spewing pathetic dribble. There is no hell. Hell is on earth. There is no devil just like there isn't a tooth fairy or an ogre living in your closet.

Thump on!

Did you see me try and convert EB? I don't think I did. I pointed out his blatant hypocrisy and he didn't like eating what he was dishing out and threw an e-temper tantrum.

Tantrum? A HA HA HA HA HA!!!

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

reply to post by Excitable_Boy


The New Testament being made to control people? Have you studied the New Testament? Im curious to know this as I read the thing most mornings before I start my life and I am constantly finding awesome things in there showing me some of the best examples of how I should tackle life. Some of the things in there arnt to good.... Ill admit that, but embeded in there is some really good stuff *cough*hebrews.
lol I could go on about that book all night, but Im not.... for now I have to go eat.

TO EB:

myself am not Christian but I gotta tell you something. Though the Christians here certainly don't need my aid I see alot of what you are saying just off the wall.

We all like to quote so let's get to it.

Someone with a horrible sense of humor asked a disgusting question and it WAS offensive. No comparing the two situations friend but nice try.

I really don't think it was meant to be disgusting. Let me quote you in my response. "If you are offended, there may have been something to what that poster said." To clarify, that poster answered a question of with another. The claim was made that Jesus and God wanted to keep us protected from 'excitement' and fun. That poster responded seriously asking, "How is sex with animals fun?" I beg you, take a good look and breathe before responding.

What does Jesus have to do with this conversation?

Really? What would Jesus have to do with a conversation based around the rules in the bible?

- The whole planet went in a different direction for eternity because someone ate a piece of fruit

I always use the example of prove it to Christians based on God's doings in this planet so let me ask you this. Prove it didn't happen. You made the claim that it was all fallacy so step up and show us that it didn't. Burden of proof my friend. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Now, when is someone going to take on Freeborn's challenge?

You like challenges? Take on mine then. Prove these actions didn't happen. The thing is, I don't believe some of the stuff happened either but you ask me to prove it and I will look as dumbfounded as can be. This is why I don't run off spouting that this could never have happened and it's all fallacy.

I also recall you saying you don't deliberately offend Christians.

Exhibit A

I'm not going to listen to some thumper spewing pathetic dribble

And finally, when people claim that it's dumb to try to know the mind of God, I look at statements like this. I am going to throw this other challenge out too since you are so concerned with people answering Freeborn's challenge.

Prove the following statements you made.

With actual words
not interpretation
Just like Freeborn asked

If you pull this off I will turn and look to the other Christians and demand that Freeborn's challenge be met.

Bottom line: God wants us to have sex and enjoy it. If some don't like it, oh well, that's how it goes. I don't care for ice cream, but a lot of people enjoy it.

I'm talking about sex between two consenting adults. God doesn't care if it is a man and a woman, a woman and a woman or a man and a man.

Have a fine day.

I apologize now to the other Christians liek Miriam if it is out of line for a Pagan to jump in on your side.If it really bothers you just say so and I will back out gracefully.

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


Thanks heaps for your post Kyo. It doesnt matter at all that you are a pagan coming in on the side of the christians. It proves what a funky person you are (funky good not funky bad )

Well in a way I wasn't trying to curry favor with you or anyone. I am just pointing out how crazy some arguments are

-Kyo

Originally posted by KyoZero

Really? What would Jesus have to do with a conversation based around the rules in the bible?

I don't know but I find it highly doubtful that 'he' would recognise The Bible as 'his words' and 'his teachings'.
There has been some seriously heavy selective editing and translation in producing the highly entertaining book which is now passed off as 'God's Word'.
But that arguement is really for another thread, another time.

I always use the example of prove it to Christians based on God's doings in this planet so let me ask you this. Prove it didn't happen. You made the claim that it was all fallacy so step up and show us that it didn't. Burden of proof my friend. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Cut's both ways.
Prove that it did happen.
When using a source to support an opinion I suggest it would be beneficial to the arguement to prove value and validity in the source, in this case the use of scripture from The Bible is the source, so prove the validity of the source.
Otherwise it is mere, interpretation and conjecture.
I say it again, this is based on Dogma.

The 'challenge' was issued in response to repeated use of scripture to support a belief.
The self same scriptures do not support the OP:
'Unmarried couple having sex is the same as a human having sex with an animal'
For fear of repeating myself;
The Bible was offered as evidence to support the statement.
Where in The Bible does it ACTUALLY state that?
Simple really.
No implications or insinuations or interpretations.

I, in turn have merely expressed a personal opinion based on what I think and feel.
How can some omnipotent, omniescient being really consider two consenting, single, adult people having sex and enjoying themselves be equally as incorrect and unatural, (sinful?) as beastiality?

I try to be as respectful as possible to followers of all beliefs.
My beliefs are irrelevant here, they are what they are, my personal beliefs.
I try to use reason and sense in my arguements, (though I quite frequently fail).
I do not rely on blind faith.

reply to post by KyoZero


Well well....There's a difference between asking someone that lives by the bible to find a passage in the bible (something concrete) that states "having sex with an animal is the same as pre-marital sex between two consenting adult partners." No one has managed to produce that passage yet.

I, on the other hand, did not come with an owner's manual or a rule book. I have God within me and He works through me. I can't come up with written proof of something from a book that doesn't exist.

Unfortunately, you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

The claim was made that Jesus and God wanted to keep us protected from 'excitement' and fun. That poster responded seriously asking, "How is sex with animals fun?" I beg you, take a good look and breathe before responding.

The poster answered seriously? NO! The poster made light of the whole thing by asking a disgustung question. And, don't beg. I can read it over and over again friend and I get more disgusted the more I re-read it.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

reply to post by Freeborn

how is two consenting, single, adults having pre-maritial sex equally as sinful as beasiality.

Although several challenges were thrown out, I will answer this one.

Beastiality:
Lev. 20:15-16 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Beastiality is sinful and the punishment is death.

Fornication:
1 Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Fornication is sinful and the punishment is death.

Fornication is again mentioned and the same penalty:
Romans 1:28-32 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The noun "fornication" is "porneia" in the Greek.

Here is the "outline of Biblical Usage":

1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

From here:
cf.blueletterbible.org...

Freeborn has (knowingly or not) saved me (and the readers) from having to engage in any ridiculous debate about whether or not beastiality is sinful.

I would hope, for the respect of the audience, this would already be a known.

In other words:

I am thankful that there is a "given" in this debate, and that "given" is that beastiality is sinful (according to the Bible). It would be an insult to the readers of this debate if the OP or others who agree with him/her or Freeborn are trying to make the point that "beastiality is no sin at all".

It appears this is a "given" in this thread:
Beastiality is sinful"

"fornication" is mentioned as an unrighteous act:

1 Cor 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

All unrighteousness is sin:
1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Those who are guilty of breaking the (Biblical) law in one way, are guilty of breaking it all:
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Paul addresses the church in Corinth about the (quite common) temptation of fornication:
1 Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

(The sin of) "fornication", in the Bible, is always a sin. It is never described otherwise.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(continued hopefully soon)

reply to post by PreTribGuy

I am thankful that there is a "given" in this debate, and that "given" is that beastiality is sinful (according to the Bible). It would be an insult to the readers of this debate if the OP or others who agree with him/her or Freeborn are trying to make the point that "beastiality is no sin at all".

There is NO ONE on here saying that beasiality is okay. I think EVERYONE has been quite clear on that. It's psychotic and anyone that would do this is obviously mentally disturbed. The problem is comparing it to two non-married adults having sex, which is quite fine and God put us here to enjoy sex. I'm sorry if some of you don't enjoy it.

I don't need a bible or any other book to tell me sex with animal is wrong and psychotic. Common sense can easily answer that.

Where did ANYONE on here even come close to giving ANYONE the impression that beastiality was okay? That is what made Clearskies question so offensive.

Here's a new question for the thumpers: My wife has had a hyterectomy (sp?). Does this mean, to you thumpers, that we should no longer have sex as we are doing it for pleasure not for procreation? Because let me tell you, the sex is great, frequent and my wife is quite multi-orgasmic. She LOVES it. God gave us this friends. This was given to us by God. If you hate sex okay, but don't hide behind the bible as your excuse for not taking part in it and not enjoying it.

I love my wife and she love me and what a great way to express it by making love as often as possible. And....it's okay if you're not married also as long as it is between two consenting adults. I will repeat: those adults can be a man and a woman, a man and a man or a woman and woman.

OH...I lost my train of thought. All that bible gibberish didn't answer the question. Nothing you posted said that "sex with an animal is the same as sex between un-married consenting adult partners." NOTHING!!

edit to add:

And this is good. This is a sin?

disobedient to parents,

What if a 10 year old girl or boy's father is raping him or her and sodomizing him or her which is also rape and includes oral sex? Should he or she accept this and not disobey? I mean, the bible is so cut and dry with you people. It's all or nothing, so this is acceptable to you all? Because if this is the message you are sending to your children, you are telling them to let Daddy rape them.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

reply to post by Excitable_Boy

There is NO ONE on here saying that beasiality is okay.

Thank you, Excitable_Boy. I was concerned that THAT would become a "nonsense/foolish argument". (It would just insult the readers.)

reply to post by Excitable_Boy

Here's a new question for the thumpers: My wife has had a hyterectomy (sp?). Does this mean, to you thumpers, that we should no longer have sex as we are doing it for pleasure not for procreation? Because let me tell you, the sex is great, frequent and my wife is quite multi-orgasmic. She LOVES it. God gave us this friends. This was given to us by God. If you hate sex okay, but don't hide behind the bible as your excuse for not taking part in it and not enjoying it.

I love my wife and she love me and what a great way to express it by making love as often as possible.

I don't think that I've ever stated that God hates sex. He ordained (and BLESSED!) sex to be between a married man and a woman...to be enjoyed:

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

reply to post by Excitable_Boy

All that bible gibberish didn't answer the question. Nothing you posted said that "sex with an animal is the same as sex between un-married consenting adult partners." NOTHING!!

I will let God decide that.

The poster answered seriously? NO! The poster made light of the whole thing by asking a disgustung question.

And you know this for sure by reading the poster's mind?

Looked serious to me

-Kyo

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by PreTribGuy

 

...................I'm sorry if some of you don't enjoy it.

I don't need a bible or any other book to tell me sex with animal is wrong and psychotic. Common sense can easily answer that.

.......


If you hate sex okay, but don't hide behind the bible as your excuse for not taking part in it and not enjoying it.

......'
And this is good. This is a sin?

disobedient to parents,

What if a 10 year old girl or boy's father is raping him or her and sodomizing him or her which is also rape and includes oral sex? Should he or she accept this and not disobey? I mean, the bible is so cut and dry with you people. It's all or nothing, so this is acceptable to you all? Because if this is the message you are sending to your children, you are telling them to let Daddy rape them.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

wtf EB? When did anyone here say they hated sex? Why do you have this idea stuck in your head that christians hate sex!!

And what in the world brought on that last section? What makes you think that a parent is going to have sex with his/her child? There is nothing in the bible saying you should do this, there are many verses telling you not to do things like that and I will say it again: If you actualy read and study the bible you would know all of this.

reply to post by funky monk

And what in the world brought on that last section? What makes you think that a parent is going to have sex with his/her child? There is nothing in the bible saying you should do this, there are many verses telling you not to do things like that and I will say it again: If you actualy read and study the bible you would know all of this.

Why...it came from the bible and PreTribGuy was nice enough to share it with us. Here it is again:

Romans 1:28-32 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

According to this lovely passage it is a SIN to disobey your parents. The bible is very cut and dry to you and your people, so what this is saying is, if Daddy wants you to perform a sex act on him or if he wants to rape you, you are obliged to do it or allow him to do it.

It doesn't say being disobedient to your parents is a sin unless they are asking you to do something psychotic, perverted or pedophillic now does it? It says it is a sin to disobey your parents, period.

Imagine a child that reads that or perhaps Daddy can show little Jimmy that passage before he rapes him.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]