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Unmarried couple having sex is the same as a human having sex with an animal?

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posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 05:20 AM
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That person's feelings regarding zoophilia and fornication make sense in the context of the Bible, though I don't think that you'd find an explicit example.

Christians believe, at least intellectually, that in the eyes of God all sin is equal. In that context, illicit sexual relations are illicit sexual relations.

In the broader society, and even among Christians, the emotional effect of the two sins would likely be quite different, even though intellectually, one might equate the two.

Adultery falls into the category of illicit sexual relations, but I do believe that a woman or a man who finds that his spouse is having an affair would be more likely to forgive that spouse if that spouse were to be having an affair with a member of the opposite sex than they would be to forgive the offending spouse if the transgression involved a member of the same sex or another species, regardless of sex.

There is also the matter of mental health to be considered in these matters. Zoophilia is a paraphilia that is considered to be an abnormal condition.

Adultery might be caused by some condition ranging from a psychosis to a personality disorder to a paraphilia, but the act itself is not considered to be pathological.

Again, how one views illicit sexual behavior from a spiritual perspective might be quite different from how illicit sexual relations are interpreted from a clinical, social, or legal perspective.

The woman referred to in the OP, probably understands the nuances that I have enumerated here, but because of her religious faith and world view, having sex with an animal and having premarital sex with a human are equal transgressions.

So, there really isn't a contradiction here or even a conundrum. In most religions, premarital sex or extramarital sex are sins regardless of with whom or what the act is committed.


[edit on 2008/8/18 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 




Okay.....where does it say anything about beastiality in that fiction you quoted?


Response from PreTribGuy:
It doesn't, specifically, but it is implied in the opening part of the first verse.

It says that the "unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God".

"beastiality" is not mentioned, but implied.



It is implied? WHERE? It says NOTHING about beastiality. It isn't implied or otherwise........

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
Can someone please explain to me, in rational terms not quoting dogma, why sex between two consenting, single adults is a sin if they are not married?
Just who are they hurting?
Why would it be as punishable as beastiality?


you cant explain sin without the bible. sorry.

if you want to leave out the bible, then you can say neither fornication nor bestiality is a sin, since sin is disobedience to god, but that doesnt mean its more ¨rational¨.

there are still consequences.

sex is not something simple like eating a piece of cake or going for a walk. its a big thing. and the consequences can be big too if one is not careful.

unwanted pregnancy changes a person´s life. this alone makes some women careful about sex, but even stds are scary if you have them.

you are also leaving out the emotional part of it, what if someone is hurt when there is a threesome?

again, if noone was hurt, the decision is yours. but the bible condemns it.

consider too that you are assuming that a person knows whats best for him. think about children for a second, why are adults so bossy with them? isnt it because sometimes they make stupid decisions? sometimes they make those decisions because of lack of knowledge or experience.

adults are the same way, they think they know what they are doing because they are older, but their decisions show that they are still a kid. they do things without considering the consequences.

how many men every year pick up prostitutes for a fun night and not consider the likelyhood of picking up a disease?

i read recently that 1 in 4 american girls have some sort of STD.

so if i put 4 glass of water in front of you and told you that one of them is contaminated, would you even attempt drinking one?

this makes the decision alittle bigger. its not something simple.

just like you wouldnt allow a child to drive a car because he doesnt fully grasp the potential of hurting or killing someone on the road, i dont think some people should be exploring their sexuality if they dont fully grasp the consequences.

consider too, AIDS is an epidemic that could be done away with if people werent so stupid about it.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Ok, I understand your viewpoint and the relationship between God, dogma and sin.

But please explain to me just WHY it is a sin for 2 consenting single adults to have protected sex.

It hurts no-one else.
No-one is being forced to do something they don't wish to.
There is little chance of unwanted pregnancy.
There is very little chance of STD's.

The only thing is 2 people are going to enjoy themselves and have a little bit of pleasure. (Hopefully!)

What is wrong with that.

Is God that vindictive that he wants to deny people a little bit of pleasure?
Not very nice really is it.

Like I said before, The Kingdom of Heaven seems like it's going to be a very boring, miserable place and very sparsely populated at that.


[edit on 18/8/08 by Freeborn]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
What is wrong with that.

again, i understand what you mean.

but there still is the chance of something going wrong.

let me illustrate the nature of sin. ill use driving as a metaphor.

you have this ability to drive, as dictated by your license, just god god permits sex by being married.

if you want to drive, you have laws to abide by. these laws are not something you chose, they are imposed on you. i know i personally was never approached to see if i was ok with the speeding laws.

but lets take speeding as an example. you are on a 4 lane highway. and the speed limit is about 120, you decide to drive 180. you figure there is noone else on the road and its relatively straight. now you might do this for ten years and nothing happens until one day your tire blows out, and you drive into a tree.

sure you can use a condom, but what if it breaks? remember too, that condoms are a recent thing. god gave this law to protect. not to prevent people from enjoyment.

again, im not saying you should change, you decide whats best for you.


Is God that vindictive that he wants to deny people a little bit of pleasure?
Not very nice really is it.


he does, as long as it is with your mate.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

sure you can use a condom, but what if it breaks? remember too, that condoms are a recent thing. god gave this law to protect. not to prevent people from enjoyment.



The thing is, I suspect that the 'law' was written by men during times when it served a social purpose.

There is no need for that level of control now.
Unfortunately the 'law' has become religious dogma and continues to be a tool which is used to control and manipulate people.

I really fail to see how sex between 2 single, consenting adults, which harms no-one at all, can be considered sinful and will thus bar them from 'heaven'!
Surely your God is not that evil and uncaring?
Seems like an extremely vindictive entity for someone who is allegedly omnipotent and omniescent.
Surely such an entity / being would be above such emotion and trivialities and would encourage his 'children' to enjoy themselves and be happy.

As an aside, it is a refreshing change to discuss an issue with someone who maintains their dignity throughout.

Though I disagree with your opinion, I recognise that it is considered and respectful.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
Unfortunately the 'law' has become religious dogma and continues to be a tool which is used to control and manipulate people.


ill be honest, im not sure i understand this point of view.

like, i can see how a priest would use this as leverage to a grieving person who has just had a loved one die. he would say something like, well he was a sinner and is probably in purgatory (another unsupported doctrine) but if you pay the church some money, we can say a few prayers to get him going to heaven.

that i can understand. but what i dont understand is how prohibiting someone from fornication benefits the church.

a - alot of churchs would simply forgive the repentant sinner.

b - if they dont forgive, they usually hypocritically tolerate it.

so im not entirely sure how its used to control people.


which harms no-one at all,


i disagree sorry, i think that there are times when it can be without anything going wrong, but again, we have epidemics in this world because of fornication.


Surely your God is not that evil and uncaring?


exactly, he does want to see us suffer from the consequences of something that can ( emphasis on can) ruin our lives


Seems like an extremely vindictive entity for someone who is allegedly omnipotent and omniescent.
Surely such an entity / being would be above such emotion and trivialities and would encourage his 'children' to enjoy themselves and be happy.


to me it makes sense. if he know us because he created us then he would know the best way for us to live. i mean think about it, a person who waits until they are married get to enjoy sex, and they dont ever have to worry about teen pregnancies, or stds.


As an aside, it is a refreshing change to discuss an issue with someone who maintains their dignity throughout.


im only explaining my beliefs, im not imposing them. if i ever do that with you, just slap me.

Though I disagree with your opinion, I recognise that it is considered and respectful.






posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 




sex is not something simple like eating a piece of cake or going for a walk. its a big thing. and the consequences can be big too if one is not careful.

unwanted pregnancy changes a person´s life. this alone makes some women careful about sex, but even stds are scary if you have them.

you are also leaving out the emotional part of it, what if someone is hurt when there is a threesome?



You really lost me here. Sex is not like cake or walking? Right. Cake is like cake. Walking is like walking and: Sex is like sex. Consequences? There are consequences to all behavior. Shall we live in padded rooms without any sharp objects?

STDs are scary if you have them but not if you don't have them?

WHERE DID THREESOMES COME FROM? We're not talking about group stuff here. Nothing kinky. Just one on one. Miriam, you made me blush.





sure you can use a condom, but what if it breaks? remember too, that condoms are a recent thing. god gave this law to protect. not to prevent people from enjoyment.



If it breaks it breaks. But those things are a pain anyway. God wants to "protect us from enjoyment?" Sounds more like an evil step parent.



i disagree sorry, i think that there are times when it can be without anything going wrong, but again, we have epidemics in this world because of fornication.



We have epidemics in this world for more reasons than sex........PLEASE! We have epidemics because of greed, poverty, etc......

I'll use your little car analogy. People get killed on the road all the time. There are people on the road every night and day drunk. Should you stop driving?



i mean think about it, a person who waits until they are married get to enjoy sex, and they dont ever have to worry about teen pregnancies, or stds.



What if they ARE teenagers when they marry and what if they have an STD when they get married? What if one of them was raped as a child and got an STD that way? What if a young girl was raped and got pregnant that way?

Bottom line: God wants us to have sex and enjoy it. If some don't like it, oh well, that's how it goes. I don't care for ice cream, but a lot of people enjoy it.

I'm talking about sex between two consenting adults. God doesn't care if it is a man and a woman, a woman and a woman or a man and a man.

GOD LOVES EVERYONE! He made us human. He knows what it means to be human. All ye thumpers just can't seem to figure that one out.


LASTLY: I still haven't heard why it is the same to have sex with an animal as it is to have sex between unmarried partners. Miriam??


[edit on 19-8-2008 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Arizona: Where men are men and the sheep run scared.


Ahem....

Its hot in this side of the world, baby cakes!!!

Maybe who said this was suffering from heat stroke.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
This is very puzzling to me. Recently, I came across a Christian (I know there's a joke there but let's try to stay on track) and she felt quite adamantly that there was no difference between someone having sex with an animal and an unmarried adult couple having sex.

Does this make sense to anyone else on here because, I have to tell you that personally, I find this way of thinking offensive on many levels.

She says this is in the bible......if it is, that book needs to be burned.

Thoughts?

The only answer I can come up with off the top of my head is that both are sins, premarital sex (fornication), and sex with animals (bestiality), and that God views sin as sin, none more "sinful" than the other.

Maybe that is what she meant. In that regards, in Exodus it tells us not to have sex with animals, that's a sin. And not to have sex until we are joined together in marriage, that's a sin.

Did this woman give a verse as reference?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by dgtempe
 


DG...always a pleasure miss! Yes it is warm in this neck of the nape. Nape of the woods. I think it came from a woman in Spain or at least, that is what we are led to believe.


Anyway....I cancelled my membership to the Misery of the Month Club a long time ago. The thumps seem to enjoy nothing. Sadly, they probably teach their children to be miserable as well. There's a lot of Christians in the world. That's a lot of misery. Is this what Jesus wanted?
I don't believe Jesus was any more than a mortal man, if he existed at all, but I do understand what he supposedly stood for.

Too bad there isn't someone around to set you all straight. But, the kind of person that could set you all straight is the kind of person that usually gets assassinated....for getting things riled up and going against the status quo.

The Jews may have killed Jesus (if he existed) but you all have certainly made sure he was dead. You bury him with your words and actions and the ways you live your lives and then you say he's responsible for it. God made us human. Some of us, it seems, want to be super-human or god-like. Isn't this playing God?

God made us human. We don't need to do better than human!




posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Excitable_Boy
 


A star for that.

Don't want to quote the whole of your post but I have never been able to sum up my own personal take on Jesus and the majority of his followers in such an accurate, honest way.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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Hi dg, E_B, just checkin in.....



Immorality: the morality of those who are having a better time.
H. L. Mencken



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn

Originally posted by PreTribGuy


1 Cor. 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Well that rules out just about every person I know.

If this is true I suspect the Kingdom Of Heaven is going to be a very empty and boring place with very little enjoyment.

Can someone please point out exactly what the attraction is for wanting to go to such a place?

Deal me out of it if it's full of all the hang up's and insecurities which seem to be evident in the "righteousness".


It ONLY rules them out IF they have not repented from those things, meaning by the time they die they have never admitted their sin, sought forgiveness from God, and turned from it.

I firmly believe the verse is discussing those who continue in those sins, not people who had done them at one point in their past and turned from them.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The thumps seem to enjoy nothing. Sadly, they probably teach their children to be miserable as well. There's a lot of Christians in the world. That's a lot of misery.


We enjoy nothing?
Why is it YOU sound so bitter all the time?
I have rarely read a happy, non-insulting post from you in all my time here. (about three years.)
I GREATLY enjoy my husband! In every way!

I love my children.
My sons are some of the most happy kids I know.


Why do you think people have to have sex with multiple partners, do drugs, drink, or insult Christians to have fun?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


Exactly, well put. Every time I hear that criticism leveled at Christians in general I shake my head..

I was miserable before finding Jesus, I felt lost before, I had no assurance of salvation before, I find great joy in protecting my paths with God's commandments, I don't recall ever finding "upset", "downtrodden" Christians, in fact, I'm constantly reminded of overjoyed, victorious ones.

Every time I hear someone claim that I'm dumbfounded to where they get that idea from.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 




Why do you think people have to have sex with multiple partners, do drugs, drink, or insult Christians to have fun?



Sex with multiple partners? Where did I say that friend? That was Miriam that brought up sex with multiple partners. I have one partner, my wife.

I don't do drugs or drink and when were drugs and drinking EVER brought up in this thread until you just brought them up now?

I'm not trying to insult anyone. I am just trying to understand how a Christian can say that having sex with an animal is the same as two humans that are not married having sex. THAT is the topic of this thread. This thread is not about threesomes, drugs and drinking. I am sorry if that disappoints you....maybe you can start your own thread about those subjects.

Please try to stick to the topic. Thank you!




posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Thanks. I'm glad that what I wrote makes sense.

Peace!



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by Excitable_Boy
 


Honestly I haven't read the whole thread.
You said 'thumpers don't have fun, they teach their children to be miserable.', something to that effect.

Why is sex with animals fun?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 




Honestly I haven't read the whole thread.
You said 'thumpers don't have fun, they teach their children to be miserable.', something to that effect.

Why is sex with animals fun?



I'm not sure what your agenda is here, but you're not funny. If this is what you have to say, then please move to a different thread. If this is a joke to you, then move to another thread.

I find your question extremely offensive, but that was obviously your intention.



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