9-11 simple facts

On September 11 2001

Flights turned off their transponders...This does not mean they disappeared from radar they only stop sending out the planes personal info. The FAA ALWAYS contacts the military to send jets up to investigate, which they always do investigate. Except on that date.

Why did all the planes "coast to coast flights" only have about 30% of their seats filled....when was the last time you got on a planet that was only 30% full?
Why were none of the terrorists names on the flight manifests?
Why have several of the terrorists been proven to be alive?
Why did Osama Bin Laden deny on 2 occasions having any part in the Sept 11 attacks(terrorists love to claim their handiwork)...and if we had any proof why didn't the Government show it to Yemen, Pakistan or Afghanistan... (they said they would turn him over to the US if they could provide any evidence)?
Why is Bin Laden still not wanted for the attacks of September 11?...check the FBI most wanted terrorists and read all the wanted posters...none are wanted for Sept 11.

The secret service knew of the first plane hitting the WTC...when the second plane hit they would have assumed an attack of some sort and forced the president to leave the school in Flordia...he would have had no say in the matter. Yet for the first time they did not safeguard him. They let him stay for almost 25 min after the second attack.

Hundreds of witnesses heard,saw or were personally involved in explosions throughout the WTC towers...across multiple floors and at various times.

Who would have had access to put the roughly 4-5000lbs of explosives in each of the buildings...especially WTC7...which had offices of the FBI,CIA and the Emergency Command Center of New York City(which R.G. should have been in)

Everything takes the path of least resistance....so if the world trade towers were weakened at those floors by fire....then why didn't the top just topple over like it should have...instead we are told to believe that the top floors forced their way through 300,000tons of still strong structural steel and concrete.
One catch though with fires ignited by jet fuel and only composed of office materials, the hottest any beam would have gotten is about 700 degrees F...nowhere near enough to weaken any of the columns.
But molten metal was seen flowing from the building...what caused this. They were putting out fires due to extreme temps as late as November. What generated this extra heat? Why were windows blown out by debris as far as 100yards away.

Fire fighters were told to evacuate WTC7 at 1130AM due to imminent collapse and it did collapse at 5:20PM. But the fires in the building were minimal and would have been easy to control. Why did several people standing near "first responders" hear a countdown over the walkie talkies they were carrying the that ended at the exact time of the collapse.

Why did all three of these buildings land essentially in their own footprint.

Where did the molten metal under all three buildings come from?


I will stop there for now...my point is. These are all very reasonable questions that should be answered BY OUR GOVERNMENT and have not been answered. NO ONE IN GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN HELD TRULY ACCOUNTABLE. Yet these are some the events that has lead us into 2 conflicts and have killed around 9000 Americans (soldiers included and crippled or wounded thousands more). WTF....When are people going to stop the blind denial and at least look at the reasonable information and realize that we deserve reasonable answers.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by i58784]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by i58784]

Very good post. But yer beating a dead horse, either they know, don't care, or don't want to know. It's already been turned into a movie.

Hi,

You will undoubtedly receive many posts from the skeptics, whom will tell you that every question you have has been answered and proven, at least to them, that what the government has told us is the truth.

I however will not be one of them. Like you, I still want these questions answered, by someone NOT affiliated in any way shape or form, with the government. Just release the video's from the pentagon, that prove a passenger aircraft crashed into the building, that would be a great starting point.

Have a great day.

Thanks - It is sad that this information even turns into a debate.
Blind patriotism does not help find actual answers and living the "I just can't believe they would do such a thing" existence doesn't help either. My brother is a lawyer and normally has a reasonable argument for everything....but when it is about Sept 11 all he can ask is "who could and why would they". I have tried to explain that those are the answers the truth community want....some parts we only have speculation for...but some parts are proven even by the governments own reports.
The fires in the WTC buildings could have not weakened the structure enough to cause a global...Proven to be a FACT, yet we still have to hold peoples hands and walk them through the details time and time again.

I tell him to follow the money...look at who has profitted from the warring actions of the US...Not Bin Laden or Saddam. Bush, Cheney, the new owner of the WTC with over 8 Billion dollars on a 14million dollar investment. (Lucky him to not have to pay to remove all that asbestos now)

This whole mess just sours my stomach.

I am like a lot of "truth" seekers. I don't want to believe that my government was involved in this or did little or nothing to prevent it. All this said, it's hard to deny that there are questions. Deny ignorance, right? I have one question for the original poster though. I have mentioned to friends and family the topic of supposed hijackers being "proven" alive. Where has this been proven? I know I've heard it before, but can't remember where.

The FAA ALWAYS contacts the military to send jets up to investigate, which they always do investigate

No, not always prior to 9/11/01.

Why did all the planes "coast to coast flights" only have about 30% of their seats filled....when was the last time you got on a planet that was only 30% full?

And if you bother to do some research you will find that those flights were normally between 30-50% capacity. The number of passengers on those jets that day was typical.

Why were none of the terrorists names on the flight manifests?

Wrong. When you look at the actual manifests, as opposed to the victim's lists, you will see the terrorists names.

Why have several of the terrorists been proven to be alive?

Nope. The BBC found a couple guys that had names similar to those of the terrorists.

The secret service knew of the first plane hitting the WTC...when the second plane hit they would have assumed an attack of some sort and forced the president to leave the school in Flordia...he would have had no say in the matter. Yet for the first time they did not safeguard him. They let him stay for almost 25 min after the second attack

Yes, twenty-five minutes in which the Secret Service reswept the area to make sure there were no suprises waiting for when the President did leave. Rushing him out of a building into the unknown without the presence of an immeadiate threat would have been stupid.

Hundreds of witnesses heard,saw or were personally involved in explosions throughout the WTC towers...across multiple floors and at various times.

Ever been in an office building? There are hundreds if not thousands of ordinary items that will "explode" when exposed to fire/heat...most cleaning products, oxygen cylinders in first aid rooms, the hair spray that some secretarys have tucked away..hell even soda cans will explode. So yes, in an office building fire you will hear quite a few items go BOOM....doesnt mean they are explosives.

Who would have had access to put the roughly 4-5000lbs of explosives in each of the buildings.

Ah yes, the answer is....nobody. No way to wire three buildings with all the explosives needed to bring them down, without someone noticing.

They were putting out fires due to extreme temps as late as November. What generated this extra heat?

You do realize there were subway tunnels feeding air into the bottom of the pile right?

But the fires in the building were minimal and would have been easy to control.

Not according to the members of FDNY that were there that day.

Why did all three of these buildings land essentially in their own footprint.

Riiiiiiight....thats why the surrounding buildings suffered so much damage. 30 West Broadway suffered so much damage from WTC 7's collapse that they had to tear it down.

Im sorry.....where were the "facts" you talked about??????

Originally posted by i58784
Thanks - It is sad that this information even turns into a debate.

I can tell you how it turns into a debate.

1. You pose a ton of questions pretty much asking "How can this be?"

2. If someone responds to those questions with researched and valid answers-- THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH -- you feel the need to discredit the provider of the information in order to maintain your beliefs.

It takes three paths from there, either a series of Ad Hominem exchanges leading to nowhere

a disintegration of the topic into minutia

or a flat out refusal to comprehend the information received -which leads to repeatedly asking the same original questions again, and again hoping for a different outcome.

I think you did an excellent job of summarizing questions and posing potential lines to research. As to your thread title, which talks about simple FACTS.... well..... I think your post falls well short of establishing any facts.

Still, there are many of those questions and ideas that I think have real merit. I also think that most of the USG system was ill prepared for such an event, and it showed all the way. The governmental/military response was disjointed at best.

I wonder sometimes if the truth can ever be established with a preponderance of evidence. It almost mandates an interpretation by various experts -- most of whom their motives and potential agenda might be questionable. I have yet to find a website dedicated to 9/11 that didn't have a feel of an agenda about it. Many claims are made. Few are supported. Those that ARE supported, also often weave in a little or a lot of hyperbole. One of the telling things (for me) is when people who have compiled lots of evidence quickly dismiss weak points in the argument.

Good post. We have to keep thinking, keep this event alive, not let the lives lost be wasted without discovering the lesson.

I think you're right in that the owners of the WTC not only did not have to remove materials -- fireproofing, ceiling tiles, pipe lagging, SOAC, and other stuff mandated by AHERA and OSHA -- pirmarily asbestos-containing, but they also didn't have to mitigate the galvanic loss that was threatening to cause structural failure on several floors of both twin towers.

I have this info supported somewhere in my myriad of flash drives. Consider it unsupported evidence until I can dig it out.

Cheers

Question is do you want answers or are you one "truthers" who when
given the answer simply refuses to believe it because it contradicts your
paranoid fantasties....

Here are some answers

Planes lose their transponders from time to time from mechanical
problems. ATC when loses symbol will try to contract by radio,
On 9/11 when AA11 disppeared the Boston ATC center contacted
NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector) to scramble fighters - planes
were scrambled at about 8:41, wheels up 8:46 - just as it slammed
into WTC North Tower.

Planes were lightly loaded because peak travel season was over - summer
vacations over, colleges/schools in session. Hijackers wanted light
passenger loads and choose flights in mid week to avoid weekend rush.

What you call the "manifest" lacking hijackers names was a list of victims
put out by the media, hijackers are not VICTIMS, they are PERPS!

Copy of manifest - hijackers are listed in first class.



Hijackers Waleed and bother Wail Al Sheri are listed in alphbetic order

As for hijackers turning up alive - that was caused by confusion over
different spelling of foreign names. FBI went to flight schools
after and tried to match people up - came up with some innocent people
with similar sounding/spelled names who were cleared. BBC printed
then retracted the story of Hijackers found alive.

As for Bin Laden - he has admitted planning 9/11, Several of the hijackers
left "martyr video" admitting to their part in 9/11 plot.

Why Bush et al not flee in panic from school after 2nd hijacking - reason
it was safe there, not expect 6 year old to yank out a piece and start
blasting. Place had been checked and secured. Idea is to wait and gather
more information then formulate a plan

As for rigging building with explosives - it takes months to do it, the
entire building before a demolition is totally cleared, all furnishings, walls
pipes, electrical conduits, etc are removed, colunms are cut by torch
and miles of det cords and shock tubes laid to explosive charges. Now
try to do that in occupied building with people, walls, furniture in the way

As for fires not getting hot enought - tests on steel after showed fires in
hottest part reached 1800 F. In modern office building is plenty of fuel
load, mostly synthetics which burn with twice the heat output of organic
(wood, paper, cloth). Holes in side feed in plenty of air to stoke fires

As for WTC 7 - FDNY abandoned building around noon because of
heavy structural damage and fact the collapses of towers had cut
water mains - was no water pressure to fight fires and the internal
stand pipes in building were damaged - no water, no way to fight fires.

Diagram of damage to WTC 7



As for collaping in own footprint - here is diagram of damage caused
by debris . Several nearby buildings were destroyed or heavily damaged




You asked the questions - here are some answers. For a more complete
listing of answers

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

Originally posted by thedman

As for Bin Laden - he has admitted planning 9/11, Several of the hijackers
left "martyr video" admitting to their part in 9/11 plot.

Can you show any proof that Bin Laden admitted to planning 9/11?

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

archives.cnn.com...

Your "answers" are hardly real answers.

As for rigging building with explosives - it takes months to do it, the
entire building before a demolition is totally cleared, all furnishings, walls
pipes, electrical conduits, etc are removed, colunms are cut by torch
and miles of det cords and shock tubes laid to explosive charges. Now
try to do that in occupied building with people, walls, furniture in the way

You've got to be kidding? People, walls and furniture is your reason that a CD could not be accomplished in the WTCs? What about the reported "construction work" in the Twin Towers weeks before 9/11? What about the reported dust all through the buildings weeks before 9/11? What about the evacuations and power-downs weeks before 9/11?

As for fires not getting hot enought - tests on steel after showed fires in
hottest part reached 1800 F. In modern office building is plenty of fuel
load, mostly synthetics which burn with twice the heat output of organic
(wood, paper, cloth). Holes in side feed in plenty of air to stoke fires

Two things: 1. There is no evidence proving the 1800F temperatures. 2. Did you happen to notice the massive amount of black smoke coming from both towers? That is a sign of a oxygen poor fire.

As for WTC 7 - FDNY abandoned building around noon because of
heavy structural damage and fact the collapses of towers had cut
water mains - was no water pressure to fight fires and the internal
stand pipes in building were damaged - no water, no way to fight fires.

Heavy structure damage? There were a few ongoing fires. Where is the proof of this heavy structure damage you speak of? The word "possible" in the diagram you linked to is hardly proof.

As for collaping in own footprint - here is diagram of damage caused
by debris . Several nearby buildings were destroyed or heavily damaged

The Twin Towers did collapse into their footprint because of the top-down destruction. WTC7 did collapse into its own footprint, and you can't deny that.

The Twin Towers did collapse into their footprint because of the top-down destruction. WTC7 did collapse into its own footprint, and you can't deny that.

WTC 7 collapsed in "footprint" - then why did buildings considerable
distance suffer damage?




picture of damage to 30 West Broadway (Fiterman Hall)





Damage to Verizon Building (140 West St) after debris removal




Damage to WTC 7

Hole torn is South face (through smoke from fires)



Statement of Daniel Nigro - FDNY

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.

2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.

3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.

4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

reply to thedman

Just because other buildings suffered damage from the collapse does not mean it didn't drop to its own footprint.

The 7-story rubble pile left over speaks for itself. You cannot say (or prove for that matter) that it didn't collapse into its own footprint.



I like how you only addressed WTC7. No proof to Bin Laden admitting 9/11? I suppose you can't prove BS.

good work Op...
You have easily proven dman wrong an all counts....
and you have done it rather quickly too... right on....

they are still trying to convince us of a bunch of LIES.....good luck
to them...their gonna need it.....

We , the WORLD. are quickly waking up to these LIES....
just takes a bit of common sense and the ability to ask Questions..

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Maya432]

Is it just me, or does anyone else hear the X-Files theme when certain toofers post?

"Just because a building clobbers all the buildings around it, doesnt mean it didnt fall in its own footprint."

Can you show any proof that Bin Laden admitted to planning 9/11?

memri.org...
www.worldpress.org...
www.fas.org...
news.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...

My tape recorder was on and one very important al Qaeda leader he turned off my tape recorder and said, “Yes, I did it. Okay. Now play your tape recorder.” I played the tape recorder and he said “No, I’m not responsible

Hamid Mir interview with Peter Bergen, Islamabad, May 11 2002 and March 2005

Hmmmm.....

People, walls and furniture is your reason that a CD could not be accomplished in the WTCs? What about the reported "construction work" in the Twin Towers weeks before 9/11?

Well those items sure in the heck make it hard for you to get to the beams to prep them for CD. What about the reported construction work? Where is your "proof" that there was any? And since it takes WEEKS to wire 9 story buildings, it would have taken MONTHS to wire the towers...all without anyone noticing anything.

Before you jump on the weeks statement....

In 24 days, CDI's 12 person loading crew placed 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on 9 levels of the structure. Over 36,000 ft. of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay devices were installed in CDI's implosion initiation system. As the implosion required the detonation of a total of 2,728 lb. of explosives, CDI implemented 36 "primary delays" and an additional 216 “micro-delays" in the implosion initiation sequence in an attempt to keep detonation overpressure to a minimum

www.controlled-demolition.com...

And thats in a building where the carpet and furniture has been removed.

2. Did you happen to notice the massive amount of black smoke coming from both towers? That is a sign of a oxygen poor fire.

No, its a sign of a petroleum products fire.

The Twin Towers did collapse into their footprint because of the top-down destruction. WTC7 did collapse into its own footprint, and you can't deny that

Debris from the towers ended up three to four blocks from the complex....sorry, but thats not a building that "fell into its own footprint"

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Is it just me, or does anyone else hear the X-Files theme when certain toofers post?

"Just because a building clobbers all the buildings around it, doesnt mean it didnt fall in its own footprint."

Sometimes it is more like the Benny Hill theme song.




Perhaps the buildings just had very large feet...ever thought of that?

Let's make a Youtube video of that theory and present it as fact, then sell t-shirts about it.


Sad thing is --I bet there would be a certain percentage of people that would buy the tripe.

Oh yeah, and this one I love....

power-downs weeks before 9/11

Again, where is your proof? The ONLY person who mentions a power down is Scott Forbes. And since his original statement, he has admitted that the only power down he knows about covered part of the three floors his company occupied in ONE tower. Also, it only lasted 18 hours. So, where are these Supermen, who, from three floors in ONE tower, wired three buildings for destruction in 18 hours?????

Someone told me to let go of Sept.11,2001. “Just forget about it” they said.
I had this to say to them:
“IF you can remember shortly after September 11th, 2001,
there was this common phrase that was ringing my ears and
I’m going to assume it was ringing YOUR ears too.
In fact, there is a very strong chance that you uttered
the very exact same phrase I am writing about.
The phrase I am talking about, I thought, was a promise.
A promise that I had personally made to myself. I have kept my promise. Have you kept yours?”

“We will never forget” - Every True Patriot, September, 2001

We will never forget the most horrific crime in United States history,
We will never forget the airplanes that hit their targets with pure precision,
We will never forget “W” being informed,
We will never forget that “W” said he saw the first plane hit the first building,
We will never forget the most sudden and exact collapse of two skyscrapers in NYC,
We will never forget who did security at the WTC,
We will never forget who was leasing the WTC,
We will never forget the report;”secondary explosives”
We will never forget William Rodriguez’s testimony,
We will never forget he refused to be bought,
We will never forget the statements made by hundreds of EYE witnesses,
We will never forget the most sudden and exact collapse of a third skyscraper in NYC.
We will never forget who occupied WORLD TRADE CENTER SEVEN
We will never forget who decided to “pull” WTC7,
We will never forget a countdown to the collapse of WTC7,
We will never forget the expedited shipment of evidence overseas,
We will never forget who didn’t see a plane fly into the Pentagon,
We will never forget who did see a plane fly into the pentagon
We will never forget the small round hole in the outer ring,
We will never forget the small round hole in the inner ring,
We will never forget the witness who spoke of an aroma of cordite,
We will never forget the confiscated videos,
We will never forget the released video,
We will never forget the plane in Shanksville, Pennsylvania,
We will never forget who was in charge,
We will never forget that the “order still stands!”,
We will never forget the NORAD exercise,
We will never forget the confusion during the chain of commands,
We will never forget the TOTAL disintegration and disappearance of an airplane,
We will never forget who was accused,
We will never forget who was NOT on the flight manifest
We will never forget who was on the flight manifest,
We will never forget being told that alternate theories will not be tolerated,
We will never forget p.63 of Rebuilding America’s Defenses:Strategy, forces and resources for a New Century,
We will never forget the “War on Terror”,
We will never forget the “weapons of mass destruction”,
We will never forget the “unknown unknowns”,
We will never forget who “W” appointed to head the 9-11 commission
We will never forget what the U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. A.C.T. stands for,
We will never forget that our freedom to speak is a right,
We will never forget the true heroes are,
We will never forget the innocent victims,
We will never forget the first responders,
We will never forget the failure of our intelligence agency to cooperate with our bureau of investigation,
We will never forget who was promoted,
We will never forget who was fired,
We will never forget who the “the most gagged person in the history of the United States of America” is,
I will never forget,
Will you never forget?
Let the investigations begin!

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
memri.org...
www.worldpress.org...
www.fas.org...
news.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...

Exactly my point. Conflicting stories. We'll never know if he admitted or denied because we can't trust the media.

My tape recorder was on and one very important al Qaeda leader he turned off my tape recorder and said, “Yes, I did it. Okay. Now play your tape recorder.” I played the tape recorder and he said “No, I’m not responsible

I can't stop laughing at that one. Very nice.

Well those items sure in the heck make it hard for you to get to the beams to prep them for CD. What about the reported construction work? Where is your "proof" that there was any? And since it takes WEEKS to wire 9 story buildings, it would have taken MONTHS to wire the towers...all without anyone noticing anything.

No, it wouldn't. The core columns were easily accessed through the elevator shafts. In the upper floors, they could crawl all through the floors without being detected.

You're right, it would take months and it most likely did.

ACE Elevator was "modernizing" the elevators during the 9 months prior to 9/11.
911research.wtc7.net...

No, its a sign of a petroleum products fire.

I won't comment in detail because I don't want to get into a huge debate, but there was no petroleum to burn. Even if there was, there was way too much black smoke to just be "a sign of a petroleum products fire." It was starving for oxygen.

Debris from the towers ended up three to four blocks from the complex....sorry, but thats not a building that "fell into its own footprint"

Major typo on my part. I meant to say they did not because of the top-down destruction. However I would assume anyone reading that would recognize the typo because of the context in which it is used. When I mentioned the building collapsing into its own footprint, I was talking about WT7 only, not the Twin Tower. I apologize for the typo.