Who do you think babylon the great (the harlot) is?

i just wanted to see what everyone thought about this particular subject. i heard some theories, but im interested to see how everyone interprets this.

you can debate it too, it not just statements.

so what do you think?

reply to post by miriam0566


hello

earlier it says that the Women has this written on her head, (in her actions IMHO)

in strongs it says betrothed, i think its the "church" that has fallen away from the Lord and the word of God and his will, this will include any denomination (IMHO) and depending who you are will depend what is the top denomination if you will.

david

Sounds like an institution that gets a free ride on the back of the beast.
It makes use of all the benefits of the acquisition of power that was done by the work of someone else.
It had to sell its integrity first, to make use of that power.
You end up with two opposing pictures, one pure woman in the wilderness and a defiled woman, living in luxury in the city.
One is the true church and the other is one who uses the name of the church, for its own purposes. Killing the saints, in pursuit of its own satisfaction.

The harlot woman in revelation is the Catholic church and any protestant splinter group using any of the Catholic doctrine... i.e. Sunday worship, easter and christmas celebration (pagan in origin), misconception of an eternal spirit upon death that goes to heaven or hell, etc. I pinpoint the catholic church because of it's continuous stance on authority over the holy bible and the merging of christian and pagan ideas into one. The harlot woman is mentioned in revelation as sitting atop of 7 mountains.. now take it as you may but the city of Rome is known as the City on 7 Hills and the origins of catholicism derive from Rome. The harlot woman I would say that anyone would agree represents the false religious system. Now historically there was only one denomination of christians in existence before the catholic church was founded and that church was the Church of God which is mentioned by name and city in the bible... i.e. To the Church of God which is in Corinth. This church that Jesus built still kept the Jewish holy days, the sabbath, and strict non-pagan doctrine. This church is mentioned in revelation as the woman in the wilderness. I am not here to single out a follower of the catholic church.... just the establishment of it. The same goes for it's protestant cousins.

reply to post by Locoman8


Hey, you need to go over to bibleforum.org and go to the Bible Chat section and write to this guy, FirstFruits and straighten this guy out.
He is putting up all these verses telling people that the Law says they need to kill anyone who breaks the Sabbath.
Or not. To be fair to this forum you can post it here, too.
I have been posting for a few days and have decided he is the anti-Sabbath Troll, on that forum. Have a go if you think you can get anywhere.
I have my own views on the subject but saying the Law has to be disregarded because of unreasonable demands, is a little extreme.
My argument is that the Sabbath existed before Moses and we can keep it without putting ourselves under the whole Mosaic system.

When christ died on the cross as the sacrificial lamb, it eliminated the need to follow those ordinances. The 10 commandments are the only mosaic doctrine that people should worry about. The ordinances were strictly for the Hebrews in order to teach them seeing that God work directly with this one race of mankind until the death of Jesus.

Hi Miriam
A very interesting and important question afterall we're told to get out of her if we don't want to be counted with her.
My belief is that she represents ALL religions that don't follow the teachings of God. Her identity is revealed in symbolism. She is a "geat city" a 'Kingdom' that rules other kings-Rev 17:18. She has relationships with politiical rulers and commerce, a dwelling place of demons and persecutor of prophets and holy ones.
Ancient Babylon was Nimrods kingdom(i.e.the tower of Babel) and he was in opposition to God. It was a place where many religions resided and started. Her practises are found all over the world and in virtually every religion. For example-trinity gods,worshiping images,immortal soul that survives death, priestly-layman classing,astrology,sorcery,etc..
She sits in shamless luxury on the backs of the common people. As such she makes herself a friend of the world and an enemy of God.
Satan himself is honored by all who follow her practises. We must worship God according to His requirements not ours or Babylons.This is her great sin-misleading humans away from God.
Remember Mat.7:21 "Not everyone saying Lord..will enter the kingdom.....but the ones doing his will,will.
She will be judged adversly, so identifying her or any of her practises is vital. All false worship including Christendom has commited spiritual fornication with her.

lol i never actually posted my thoughts on this LOL

juiel, i pretty much agree with you. ill post what i posted in another thread

Originally posted by miriam0566
there are several distinct characteristics of the harlot, however you must first understand babylon in order to understand why the comparison is being made

¨the two babylons¨ by rev hislop is a very interesting read on this topic

you can read a digital copy here - www.biblebelievers.com...

basically he compares teachings in the church and how closely these elements that are not in the bible seem to be linked with ancient babylon.

but pre-trib is right, this babylon the great is greater than the RCC.

ancient babylon was built in open defiance to god. nimrod wasnt building a city and starting his own religion out of ignorance. he would have known about the flood and god´s prophecy about a coming seed. he would have understood mankinds need for a ransom, but much like the rest of the world he wouldnt have known exactly how that was going to play out. he (and others) wanted to make a name for themselves. they didnt want to need a savior.

when you examine the ¨mysteries¨ of ancient babylon, or its religion, you see how nimrod (or those close to him, possible even by inspiration of the demons) took some element of truth and then twisted it. instead of awaiting a saviour, nimrod became the saviour. instead of god being 1 god, he became 3 in the form of a godhead. instead of preaching the truth freely, the religion became a ¨mystery¨ held by only the few, the priesthood (beginning of gnostic thinking)

when god stepped in and threw them into confusion, what happened? they scattered right? why wouldnt they take these beliefs with them?

its interesting to note that nearly every civilization that exists today has a folklore tale of a flood that wiped away evil. in all the examples elements change wildly, but they still have similarities. ( home.earthlink.net... ) this also shows that cultures and languages did infact spread with the scattering. its probable and very possible they brought babylonian teaching with them. of course it would change over time, but certain similarities would be evident even with the passing of time.

another interesting thing to note is that sometimes people look at this evidence the other way. they try to say jesus was inspired by these mythologies. but if nimrod knew about the need for a seed, then likely it would have been included.

what is scary is how everything came full circle. babylon was scattered and its teaching diluted and changed. but the last of the apostles die off and a great apostasy sets in and the corruptions that were introduced are extremely close to the original babylonian. if you look at the 2 babylons, hislop points out that virgin worship today is almost identical to the way is was in babylon. its almost as if satan is signing his signature so that we know it was his idea.

my point is that all ¨false¨ religion started with the rebellion in babylon. it was at that point that people decided that they wanted to believe something else. i think its fitting that false religion would be named ¨babylon the great¨. again, this is not only the RCC, but any and all religions that embrace a lie.

does this fit the bible account?

¨great whore that sitteth upon many waters¨ - ancient babylon eventually became indestructible, not only did it have double walls, but it was protected by rivers. this made assaults on the city nearly impossible. verse 15 of chapter 17 says that the waters are people. people supply an amount of protection for false religion in that they support it with money and even loyalty. an attack on false religion by any element of this world would likely end in failure due to this support. verse 16 talks about an attack by the ten horns (ill get into that later). so obviously something happens to these waters. in ancient babylon, the waters were diverted by cyrus and dried up. it is likely that a similar thing will happen to babylon the great. she will lose the protection and support of her people.

¨With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication¨ - Isreal was sometimes called a whore for building alliances with nations that god told them not to (ezekial 16:26,29). even gomer, habakkuk´s unfaithful wife, was used as an example of how god would forgive the fornication of isreal and would allow them to return to him. false religion has committed fornication with the kings of the earth by getting involved in their affairs. the RCC is most known for this, however all false religion is guilty of this.

¨I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast¨ - do people sit on wild animals? no, you sit on animals you have tamed. so while this beast is is ¨wild¨, babylon the great is confident that she has tamed it. enough is her confidence that she even rides it. if the beast is the governments of the world (ill explain why later) then false religion is too confident. not only do they commit fornication (mettle in government affairs) but they also think they have a measure of control

¨the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:¨ - false religion lives in shameless luxury. again not only the RCC

¨And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.¨ - several things about this verse. first you have the word ¨mystery¨ which is a direct reference to the babylonian ¨mystery¨ or religion. mother of the harlots, not all religions today are like babylonian beliefs, but all have ties to it, so while they may be harlots themselves, babylon is there ¨mother¨ or from where they got their basic beliefs from. abomination can also be a reference to idol worship which seems to be a corner stone in false worship.

¨I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints¨ - false religion has one purpose and one purpose only. to lead mankind away from god. from the false baal worship the isrealites did, to the church, they have killed and persecuted those who worship in truth. even the jewish leaders of his time called for the death of jesus and his apostles. from jezabel killing the true prophets of god to the church killing those who were trying to translate the bible into the common tongue. the bloodguilt of false religion is so much that she is drunk from it.

"And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth;¨ - its really interesting that alot of these services and things are found in temples and churches. there is always musician and sculptures and candles and weddings. but the angel here is saying no more.

¨for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.¨ - this is a key to understanding too who this is. magic is something that is forbidden by god, why? well for one it was a false form of worship. if you are asking spirit for help with something and that spirit is not god, then who are you asking? babylon teaching relied on lies and false beliefs. the world is saturated with dissenting beliefs, all designed to pul people away from god. the blood of these people who are deceived is on the hands of babylon the great. she perpetuated and coerced the world to follow her. this is why god deals with her so badly.

lets say im wrong, lets say babylon is not false religion. there are some reasons i think its defiantly NOT america.

for one, america is a political entity. political entities are usually described as wild beasts. daniel uses very similar language to revelations in describing beasts who come out of the sea. daniel clearly explains that these beasts are political nations. IF america is mentioned in revelation, it is more likely to be the beast the whore is riding on than the whore.

second. the harlot deceived with spiritistic practices. yes american government is known for lying but not with ¨spiritistic¨ ways.

third. the harlot commits fornication with the kings of the earth. even though there is nothing to say that the whore isnt a ¨king¨ (or queen if you will) the context implies an organization outside the category of ¨kings¨. not rock solid, but its hard to make it fit another way.

At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” The term “city” indicates an organized group of people. Since this “great city” has control over “the kings of the earth,” the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one. Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.

An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that “the kings of the earth,” or the political elements of this world, “committed fornication” with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called “the great harlot.”—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.

Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the “merchants of the earth,” representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from “a distance.” (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17) Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her “spiritistic practice.” (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great “a dwelling place of demons.” (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting “prophets” and “holy ones.” (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders “the witnesses of Jesus.” (Revelation 17:6) Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

reply to post by Audevourahn

Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

Not to directly contradict you, in case you are a JW, I might venture a guess as being the anti-christ which promotes Yahweh as God, in opposition to the Christian God, Theos.

Jerusalem being the seven hilled city, with seven named mounts within the city walls.
ignore the green numbers which were for something else
Hard to read so I will spell the names,
Gareb, Goath, Acra, Bezetha, Moriah, Ophel, Zion