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[HOAX]Is my Grandfather a time traveler or a joker?[HOAX]

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posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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Much obliged asala.

Can we begin discussions on whether or not to finally make this thing have the hoax label




posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Can't the OP get banned for a blatant hoax? Because I think it's painfully obvious, I know others are having a hard time with it, but cmon, it's so obvious.


[edit on 16-8-2008 by Sheeper]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Sheeper
Can't the OP get banned for a blatant hoax? Because I think it's painfully obvious, I know others are having a hard time with it, but cmon, it's so obvious.


[edit on 16-8-2008 by Sheeper]



That should be the next step sheep. Correct.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


I was replying to this post a minute ago - but wouldn't let me edit -

here's another:

www.adsabs.harvard.edu...

which leads to a boatload of publications with the name Gregory A.G.

read the first abstract: adsabs.harvard.edu...

Gregory, Andrew - Plato and Aristole Eclipses

scanned pages from a printed document

doesn't necessarily mean anything - but interesting connection

like I said - maybe a puzzle

[edit on 8/16/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

[edit on 8/16/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

[edit on 8/16/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

[edit on 8/16/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

[edit on 8/16/2008 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by bknapple32
 


What facts have been presented that this is a hoax? The paper doesn't look right, the burn marks are wrong, the grammar is bad, it is either typed or it isn't. the seal isn't legit, I don't reconize the presidents initials, etc. All of this is just opinions with very little factual basis.

No one knows what writing, printing, computing mediums and education will be around in the future. It is possible that the grandfather did indeed travel forward in time, found this document and brought it back with him, was threatend that he needed to destroy it, faked burning it instead and left it for future generations. Perhaps Grandpa inadvertently grabbed a childrens book from some future point of time. The point is no one knows,but that in itself does not make it a hoax.

You have made it quite clear with your numerous posts repeating what others have said, that you believe it is a hoax. I am still unconvinced of this.

Perhaps the OP can give some further details of grandpa's death. If he did indeed die then that would lend more credence to the op, and may leave the hoax tag to only fall on the grandfather.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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You have just taken plenty of facts, that when added together, always point to hoax.

The OP has not come back to answer because, as with most hoaxsters, he has prob given up with trying to keep up the shenannigans.

I dont get how one can look at the presidential seal of the United States being worn, but the photoshopped looking print is perfect. If both aged the same amount of time, one would assume the same amount of aging.

I understand the want to believe ,but to just say all the arguments against the OP are opinion and dont mean anything to discredit is ignorant. Sure, alone they dont mean much, but when all added together, the scale undoubtedly tips the direction of hoax.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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Another way you could look at it..

Say this was all true...
If the government or a military did release this, and they knew somewhere down the line some guy is probably going to lose possession of it or misplace it, or maybe found by another..

Wouldn't that be the best way for them to get people to discredit it? Spelling mistakes that everyone would obviously point out and say oh well this can't be a government document, look at these mistakes.
A perfect way for them not to have to worry as much if this sort of thing got into the wrong hands, or wrong timeline.

Kind of like the area51 thing where people say "oh it's just a decoy, the real base is hidden somewhere else."
Well that's just like the above example, people are going to think that, so they'll be trying to search for that other place... leaving area51 alone..

Just a thought..

(I'm terrible at wording my thoughts, so I hope you guys got the jist of it).

[edit on 16-8-2008 by MurrayTORONTO]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Vector J

I'm sorry, but are you serious? Or was there some underlying humour in saying that that's passed me by?

If you do have such things, a discussion on them would be excellent, though I can imagine posting scans or such could prove problematic...


Yes I am SERIOUS

Yes I have such things

No I don't need to post scans as I have the PDF's

Yes I have ALREADY POSTED them in several threads..

At least you paid attention to my post
You get a star for that


[edit on 23-12-2012 by zorgon]

PS It is also noted that YOU are the ONLY one who caught it and/or showed interest


This is why I don't waste my time in some threads






[edit on 16-8-2008 by zorgon]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Shadesterpwnz
Do we always need proof for something to be possible? I can remember reading about someone named Christopher Columbus. I think he said the Earth was round but the Europeans didn't believe him. What proof did he have at that time? None, he just believed. When Einstein first started, all the other physicists rejected his theories because they "didn't make sense" (that's what happends when you have a closed mind). I think we've all lost our imagination, we need more people that think "outside the box" because if we don't everything will be "impossible".


I think you need to study your history better.

Or maybe in your timeline Columbus was the only European who thought the World was round, all the other Europeans thought it was flat and Chris went on his merry way just to prove that point.

And all other physicists did not reject his theories, they were extremely intrigued, as all scientists worth their salt are. Some thought it impossible and for others it was World shattering.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by Sheeper
 



You're starting to see a PASTERN here? Did you mean "pattern"? You can use spell check in the present and not criticize those who may not use it in the future.

I googled FM-TTD-1 (field manual-time travel document-1?) and nothing came up except a page asking me if I meant "TDD" which turns out to be a "real time disk formatter". I think it's that deal on the telephone used for deaf people. At any rate, I saw nothing about what FM-TTD-1 might refer.

Lighten up, people. Most of us realize this is not really a manual from the future. Sure is a good read, though, isn't it?


You don't think he was making a humorous point with his "pastern"? Y'know, with it being in quotes 'n all?

Also, if you realise this isn't a manual from the future (as you have said many times) why do you keep trying to get people to search the "Presidents" name and have now searched for whatever that is above?



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Yes I am SERIOUS

Yes I have such things

Yes I have ALREADY POSTED them in several threads..

At least you paid attention to my post
You get a star for that


[edit on 23-12-2012 by zorgon]

PS It is also noted that YOU are the ONLY one who caught it and/or showed interest


This is why I don't waste my time in some threads



[edit on 16-8-2008 by zorgon]


Sorry buddy, should have checked your thread history first! But good to know, you;ve given me some stuff to look for and read rather than this useless thread!...



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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Someones a Joker.....thats the bottom line. I smell something, its heavy and is just hovering in the air.....



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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AHAHAHAHAHaHAHaHAH, Well buddy you should have used an old Typewriter instead of Microsoft Word. hahahha roflmao The typing is a definite give away. But very well hoax man. Kudos



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Vector J
Sorry buddy, should have checked your thread history first! But good to know, you;ve given me some stuff to look for and read rather than this useless thread!...


Start with this...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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t
h
i
s

thread made me bust out a "lol"




posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by triplesod
 


Actually, that's kind of incorrect too. Most anyone at the time with an education knew very well that the earth was round, and it was also known to a fair degree of accuracy how big around the earth was. This stuff was figured out by the ancient Greeks, after all, and was absorbed by the Romans, who the western world continued to study for a thousand years after it's fall. The physicists at the time laughed, because, essentially, he thought the world was half the size it was thought to be. And he was wrong.

People at the time thought Christopher Columbus was a fool because he thought he could sail around the pacific to china and the indies. Most educated people knew the earth was far too big for that to work; the crew of his ship would probably die at sea. Christopher was, indeed wrong. He was lucky, though, and stumbled upon a continent far short of halfway to his intended destination.

Essentially; he was a foolish but lucky man, who would have died because of his beliefs had there not been a huge landmass he didn't know about blocking his way. He set off on a suicidal mission because he couldn't do his math right.

The whole "science thought the world was flat in the middle ages" thing is a myth, perpetuated by people with their own agenda. science (or rather, the closest period equivalent) has known not only that the earth is round, but how big it is, for over 2400 years. Holding that the earth is flat was largely the province of the masses.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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You have to love ATS-so many experts on time travel, physics, grammar, spelling, anthropology and forensics and yet everyone still manages to dance around the smoking gun (although some of you with terrible maths have come close).
So its with great pleasure i get to quote a real scientist, Prof. Hubert J Farnsworth-
"quiet you blethering ninny hammers!"
and pull out occams razor on you all.
The document states, to paraphrase-after world war three there were 22 years of peace and research into teleportation and time travel before fighting started again in 2030.
This means world war three begins anyday now and ends in a space of 4 months or less.
Even taking into account the volatile conflicts in Georgia, Iraq and Afghanistan-this seems very, very unlikely. If I am wrong may the moderators deduct me a million ATS points!
So the answer is- B) your grandad was a joker who wrote this a while back
or C) you are a non too bright hoaxer.



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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The OP asked if there is any validity to the science, that was his question so I am going to give him the answer as I am a theoretical physicist, okay if you read the manual it says that the machine creates a black hole by increasing the mass of electrons in between 2 perfect spheres as to cancel out the gravity on both sides to create an empty black hole to sink the sphere into deeper dimension of space. this is completely plausible its called quantum tunneling it has been "witnessed" in quantum sized particles. I say "witnessed" as in math and numbers there is no way to actually see it happen on that scale.

okay destroying the black hole with positrons. electrons are negatively charged. and a positron is a positively charged equivalent, its the electrons antimatter, so if wanted to destroy a black hole of pure electrons, positrons would be the way to do it, as when an electron and positron contact they explode destroying the positron and electron and releasing energy. you would need enough positrons to destroy enough electrons to bring it back up to this dimension. oh and if you had so many electrons and positrons colliding like that it would be a bomb, and i don't think it would be wise to travel inside a bomb. unless you slowly destroyed the electrons by introducing the positrons bit by bit. until it was back up to this dimension.

It states that it uses gluon s to stabilize the field, makes sense as the electrons wouldn't be stable without a particle to travel around.

The most intriguing thing mentioned would be how it explains the universe expanding because of rotation and centripetal force caused by dark matter. i love this. i can tell you that with the proper math to back it up it would be a valid theory. one that has never been proposed before. I will see if i can work out the math for you.

Finally I would like to point out that the scientific data mentioned in the manual would be far beyond the likes of a 12-15 year old boy and way beyond an old man, most of this wasn't known until the at least the late 19 70's. i wonder what his grandfather did for a living, and also science fiction novels often play off real science, so he may have read this in a book and made the manual. him or his grandfather, but if it was his grandfather seems like something you wouldn't do on your deathbed is to create a hoax that gets your grandson ridiculed. bottom line if your gramps actually gave this to you, forget about what everybody here is saying. and cherish this as a last gift from him and when your older who knows maybe you will go to school for astro or particle physics. because real or not its a piece of inspiration



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by bknapple32
reply to post by whitewave
 


I had a though.. rare I know... Why doesnt the OP take a picture of him holding the book. And no more of this half the page stuff. Do what you want to blur yourself out, but there is too much evidence that the typed words dont even exist on these pages. They may simply be photo-shopped. So take one close enough so we can see you holding it and see some of the same words we have seen on these scanned images... This will surely lend credence or end this silly debate. I doubt this manual exists, even as a joke from paps.




I think you are coming on a little too strongly here. Even if it is a hoax, which most are calling it that, it doesn't mean that he was just trying to lie to the ATS community. Maybe he just wanted to give ATS a good read. Perhaps he made so many obvious mistakes so people didn't have to argue hoax or not they just read the pages and had a good laugh or atleast a little thought about it. There's no reason to be so mean about the entire thing. Especially when the evidence is so obviously.. well you know.

OP thanks for the post I had alot of fun reading it even if it isn't real it amused my childish side in that it looked cool and was interesting :p.

Edit - Also take into account that the OP has already stated that the conditions and grammar etc all seem fake to him aswell, he isn't pushing it for truth, he asked if the scientific part of it was. I think if I found something like that I would probably want a large scale look at it aswell. I definately don't think he should be banned for posting it because he did it for the soul purpose everyone was reading it. Curiosity.


[edit on 16-8-2008 by Boogley]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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Alright, I've been a lurking for a while yet again, but sometimes I just have to dance. I mean post a reply.

So, I'm no astrophysicist or some sort of physics major, so I can't comment on the science aspect of the whole document. I am, however an Archaeologist with special emphasis on anomalous artifacts and lost civilizations. So I decided to take a "gander" at the document in whole as presented to the ATS forum. Here is my professional opinion.

It is not even an elaborate hoax. The presentation of materials leads me to disbelieve in the story and the original nature of the documents. Here is my evaluation as I have come to see it.

The text in relation to the document itself violates authenticating marks like the seal. The seal is worn where the text remains intact. This is an argument made before but is worth noting here. Also, the edges of the document are burnt, but the rest of the document suffers from minor smoke damage. Suggesting this was a controlled burn to give that off-yellow look older documents tend to have. As Knapple has already pointed out, the document (if truly old) would not have the burned edges as this would be brittle and have broken off long ago. The decal image at the beginning looks added on after the fact. I can't say whether it was glued on or not, but it does not look like it belongs to the original document as there is a shadow bordering the image itself. I took a graphology course to be able to authenticate handwriting from different eras. This was mostly to make sure I was not being handed a fake. With this in mind I have reviewed the handwriting of the "presidential" signature with other handwriting from different people, myself included. I can't confirm that this was done by a child or a mentally handicapped patient, but it was the strain that shows it may have been written with the off-hand the person normally writes with. It does have similarities to penmanship of people attempting to learn cursive writing, but with the level workmanship that went into fabricating this document, I am disinclined to believe it was not the off-hand.

Now barring that, I have authenticated military documents in the past, as well as Government issued documents. This document does not follow the normal formatting of USA official documents. I cannot say for other documents other than United Kingdom documents, and I can only say this document looks as though presented more by a lobbyist than a branch of the Government. The seal is incorrectly placed in relation to the signature, and the signature has no format bar. That is, official documents have a place where signatures go, this document is absent of any such thing. Also there is usually a stamp that identifies whether this is a copy or original. Government documents do have staples in them (though the staples in this document are in the wrong place), but manuals are always bound.

There are more examples as to the nature of this forgery, but I see my character maximum is fast approaching. Now if the grandfather really did make a hoax or this person is attempting to hoax, I can't make a conclusive answer. I will say, however, that it is my opinion that the poster is the original hoaxer. I open up my post for debate but in general I think this should be closed.

Post script: Not even a good Titor knock off.




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