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Faith is a gamble.

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posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Herman
 
Lemme ask you a Q:

What degree of "faith" do you personally use to believe in the Sun?



I can see it. I can feel it. Not in my heart, but literally. I get sunburned from it if I'm out too long, unless of course I use sunscreen which was created using science behind the different types of rays that the sun produces. The sunblock works. I can see how it effects things around me. I can burn things with it if I use a magnifying glass. I can study what the sun is, the components that make up the sun, the things that the sun does, etc. These things can be tested objectively in a scientific setting. There are images from space that show where the sun is, how we revolve around it, how its relative position in the sky effects the temperature and amount of light per day depending on the time of year.

Need I go on?




posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Herman
 
Lemme ask you a Q:

What degree of "faith" do you personally use to believe in the Sun?



I can see it. I can feel it. Not in my heart, but literally. I get sunburned from it if I'm out too long, unless of course I use sunscreen which was created using science behind the different types of rays that the sun produces. The sunblock works. I can see how it effects things around me. I can burn things with it if I use a magnifying glass. I can study what the sun is, the components that make up the sun, the things that the sun does, etc. These things can be tested objectively in a scientific setting. There are images from space that show where the sun is, how we revolve around it, how its relative position in the sky effects the temperature and amount of light per day depending on the time of year.

Need I go on?


You can see it, you can feel it, it's easily verifiable to exist. Thanks for your answer. You didn't realize it, but that is the same "evidence" you are demanding to admit that God exists.

God didn't want people who could no more deny Him than they could deny the Sun. If He revealed Himself to that degree it wouldn't require FAITH.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

I have done my part by seeking Him faithfully, He has done His part by revealing Himself to me. I have NO DOUBT whatsoever He exists.



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You can see it, you can feel it, it's easily verifiable to exist. Thanks for your answer. You didn't realize it, but that is the same "evidence" you are demanding to admit that God exists.


Indeed it is. It's not a demand; though, it's a requirement that I can prove something exists before I devote my life to it.


God didn't want people who could no more deny Him than they could deny the Sun. If He revealed Himself to that degree it wouldn't require FAITH.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

I have done my part by seeking Him faithfully, He has done His part by revealing Himself to me. I have NO DOUBT whatsoever He exists.


There is a very important question within what you just said that you may or may not realize. Is it more important to believe that God exists, or to follow him? Surely it's possible for a person to believe in God and Jesus, but what if they don't want to follow him? Conversely, what about somebody like me who would gladly follow Jesus if I could just have a shred of evidence that he exists? Why is it so important that we have FAITH? Wouldn't it be more important, assuming that God loves us all and is logical, to ensure that people are inspired to follow God rather than just believe he exists?

In order to make the choice whether or not to follow God, a person first needs to believe that he exists. Unfortunately, this is not a choice to many of us. Sure, many people tell themselves that it's a choice and that they're just going to "believe" without requiring any evidence or proof. But do they really believe that God is up there, or are they just telling themselves that? If God wanted to give us an actual choice of whether or not to follow him, wouldn't it make logical sense for him to first make it undeniably evident that he exists? It took me years to lose my faith. Years of praying for God not to let me slip away. Years of going to church and talking with friends about it. Years of telling myself and others that yes, I'm a Christian and I believe in Jesus Christ. In the end, it turned out I simply don't have an easy time believing in something that cannot and will not be proven. It's not a choice. Do I deserve to go to Hell? Do I deserve an eternity of darkness because I was misguided by a world of lies that God himself allowed to exist? If God is infinitely more intelligent and knowledgeable than I, who is at fault if I cannot find him? Is he just looking down on me right now, knowing full well that he could appear to me if he wanted to and that I've lost my faith, just...letting it happen? Letting me be lost and damning myself? You wouldn't set a baby lose in the middle of the rain forest and expect him to find his way back to you.



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by drevill


experiences affirm my knowing. i couldn't tell you about going over Niagara falls in a wooden barrell but i know it can be done.

How can i ignore my maker when his presence in my life is so real?

david


I am not sure I follow your logic.

People can prove if they have gone over Niagara Falls, you cannot prove your experiences....
Everybody can claim they have "experiences", not many can claim a Niagara fall drop.

Shamans, Holy men, Fakirs, Sufi whirlers have all claimed "religious experiences.

There are dozens John Lennon, hundreds Napoleon and thousand Messiah who swear to another presence in their life.

What makes yours special or more credible?

I am sorry but to say "I have experiences, therefore God exists" is not exactly good logic.



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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Here we go. Found it:



There is hope in faith but there is confidence in knowledge.

Although faith is absolutely necessary, it is crucial we also base our faith on knowledge, evidence, and facts. Sadly, over the last century, a shift took place of simply 'trust and obey.' Christians used to know why they believed what they did not the majority's attitude is, 'Never ask, never question, don't research, don't study... Just have faith! Satan's biggest snare is doubt and unbelief!'

It was infuriating to be told such things repeatedly when I had sincere questions before becoming a Christian. Faith is most definitely a part of it but once it is based on knowledge, there is no going back, you have confidence in your walk, you are shameless in your love for God, and you are capable of doing what Peter urges us to do: 'Always be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within you.'



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