America is not afraid to kick Russia out of Georgia, page 4
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reply posted on 14-8-2008 @ 03:43 PM by cautiouslypessimistic
Originally posted by Randy Echo
in the case of a bully coming to the aid of a weaker person to defeat another bully it is called fighting fire with fire,

Russia simply doesnt have the ability to beat us, sorry , I am sure that we are way way ahead on the tech of war to get them to leave and not come back


what good is it to have allies if they wont come to your aid, absolute isolation for your buddy why his down on the ground getting his brains kicked out and you hand him a water and a towel , give me a break

you save that guy, stop that fight with whatever it takes


Ahhhh, got to love American arrogance.

First off, Russia has done a VERY good job of showing their tech strength. You do realize that the most vital dmage to Georgia has been done over the internet, right?

Second, when has going into a major international power's backyard EVER worked? Didn't work in Vietnam. Didn't work in Afghanistan. Hasn't worked in Iraq. Purely geopolitically speaking, the position of the United States (the land, not the people) makes it nearly impossible to fight a war on the other side of the world and win(if there is such a thing as winning).

Third, Russia has already stated, flat out, that they would take this nuclear if America gets involved.

Finally, while I think Russia's response is disporportionate, Georgia did throw the first punch, so to speak. And really, do you think they did so without some idea that they would have help? And magically, a top Georgian offical shows up on Mccains staff right as this is going down.


reply posted on 14-8-2008 @ 04:02 PM by VitriolAndAngst
Why did Bush -- or someone in the military, suddenly end the Air Force's Cyber Defense group without explanation? As others have pointed out, Russia has been doing a lot of damage to Georgia with Cyber attacks.

Why is McCain's top campaign guy, a paid agent running a lobbying firm financed by Georgia and this isn't an issue in our media?

I wonder how long our "humanitarian" people with guns, will slow down Putin's Russian army -- maybe 10 or 15 seconds? The whole point is that they stand there and get killed right -- so that we and our press can get offended and forget how this mess started?

There were some really insightful points made on Urban Survival website today (it's actually economic-oriented);
HERE


nstead, I expect military historian & writer Gwynne Dyer got it right in a March 21 analysis of titled "Abkhazia: Russian Bluff". Slowly but surely, Western allegiances, and NATO membership, is popping up all over in what were once Russia satellite regions. The Soviet empire may be gone, but the Russian mind has long been accustomed to the idea of a buffer zone. And now that both the West and the new version of capitalism growing in Russia are eyeing resources (land, energy, strategic boundaries, and resource in general) the formerly 'soft' regions are firming up. I expect Russia doesn't want to lose much - if any - of Abkhazia, which among other things sports 125 miles of coastline on the Black Sea.

As Seumas Milne writes in the Guardian this morning, "This is a tale of US expansion not Russian aggression." The more we push on these former Russian states to flip over into the US/West/NATO camp, the more resistance may be expected from Russia.

As a marketing guy (which is what I do in real-life) this is an extremely well-crafted campaign. The US/West is painting its motives as 'humanitarian/freedom-loving" while at the same time, sucking Georgian troops into Iraq and now sending US forces into the region, humanitarian aid, of course. There's enough history in the region that a semi-rational argument could be made for either position.


This is either, an encroachment for NATO against Russia, so that a Cold War can be started up again. Or a feint to get them mired there, while something happens in Iran. Regardless of what BushCo does to create problems only they can solve and act like it was all for us, I'm guessing that somewhere at the end of this lurks Martial Law in the Winter months, some event covering the broken economy, and Cuba ending up with nuclear weapons again and all the breathless shills conveniently not mentioning all the provocations that BushCo has been putting on Russia's borders. Heck, I think they even have an airbase in Lebanon, (which makes more sense than "rescuing" soldiers from Israel, who were innocently kidnapping diplomats).

If this leads to a more scary world come November, it's likely that McCain can be put in power, coupling rigged elections with a frightened populace tends to help Republican chances. So, that would mean 4 more years of war, and dead certain justification -- like the Original Poster who just wants to kick ass and maybe take names -- well, the military just can't get enough of people like him. I think the next ATS topic needs to be; Best Places to go when the STUFF Hits the Fan.



reply posted on 14-8-2008 @ 04:23 PM by cautiouslypessimistic
Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
Quote: "Third, Russia has already stated, flat out, that they would take this nuclear if America gets involved. "

The Russian have not stated so.. They threatened the Ukraine, not the United States.. Who is the only country in the world's history to ever use a Nuclear Weapon? The United States, the Russians have only been so stupid that they used it on theirselves, Chernoble. The United States has more nuclear firepower than all other countries combined....

This will never go beyond a ground war as I am quite sure Putin doesn't want to be turned to dust. The cruelest joke Satan ever played on man was making them think they would live forever... Putin is going to die if he keeps screwing around, he'll end up catching a 308 between the eyes.

The last thing Russia expects is for us to fight back, that's why they are moving forward. Bush and Company were so stupid to take all of our troops out of Europe and put them in the Desert.. That's what happens when you put idiots in charge of the military.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by GrndLkNatv]

[edit on 14-8-2008 by GrndLkNatv]


Russia HAS warned that they will use nukes. It may be sheer rhetoric, but it has been said.

As far as total nuclear firepower...you do realize that when you are talking about hundreds or thousands of warheads, it doesnt matter if one country has 500 more than another.

I beleive(and russia, germany and a few other countries have stated as well) that the U.S. did encourage Georgia to attack. America has had troops in Georgia training georgian troops for weeks. Mccain hired a major Georgian player to his staff. BP shut down the major oil pipeline in the area 2 days before fighting started. The "coincidences" go on and on.


reply posted on 14-8-2008 @ 04:24 PM by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Alferd Packer



I holiday in America every year and have found them (Americans) the nicest most charming people I've ever met, especially the New Yorkers. But you do have that unfortunate tendency of sheepishly following each other into the mire! It only takes one of you to shout "USA" and the next thing you're all screaming it. Us Brits dont have that problem anymore! Any patriotic feelings we ever had for our country evaporated when our government decided to treat us all like slaves and second class citizens.
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