Wind whips up health fears

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
Yes, most damage is created as you mention, at high volumes. The reason I have a bit of trouble hearing today is no doubt due to those days I sat enclosed in my room, listening to Lynyrd Skynyrd while watching the window panes vibrate in time to the speaker cones.

But the damage I was referencing concerned the harmonic frequency of the human eardrum. It was postulated that at one particular frequency, the eardrum would itself amplify the sounds through harmonic vibration until it burst. Sort of like the Tacoma Narrows bridge did in that gust of wind.

Mind you, I am repeating something I looked into but was never able to actually confirm many years ago. At one time I thought about trying to build something that would take advantage fo this as a weapon, but never did. What I do remember was that the frequency was well above human hearing range, needed to be pretty 'clean' of harmonics and distortion, and that a certain volume level was required to do damage, albeit a low one.

Rumor was that if used properly, it could cause hearing loss and extreme pain, followed by hemorrhage from the ears, unconsciousness, coma, and eventually death if maintained for a long enough period.

Actually, I wonder if anyone else has come across this? It's been a while since I looked into it.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck



Actually TheRedneck i think i read the same research as you. The best way i thought of it is this.

Imagine a flat pond. Drop a stone in the middle, ripples go out, now drop a stone when the ripples reach halfway betweent he shore and the middle where the first stone was dropped. Repeat this process and eventually the waves builid up and reinforce themselves.

In the cochlea this is the same principle, causing the hairs to come under tremendous stress and break off. The initial symptoms would be pain, nausea, balance problems and eventually deafness.

This is the perfect extreme of course, the wind turbines however could easily produce nausea and such symptoms if they're producing low level noise. That coudl lead to anxiety if they wern't aware of the cause.

Basically i just want a proper study on it, but further than that the damage of these towers isn't studied enough because i know someone who works at a wind farm in wales and she has found many dead birds under the farms.

[edit on 16-8-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
It sounds like we did read about the same phenomena. In normal society, though, this stuff is considered 'bunk' and readily dismissed. Sort of how a few posters have declared the low-freq waves from wind turbines as bunk and dismissed them. (Don't you love how I steered back on topic? )

If there is a connection between the turbines and the physical symptoms claimed, I would imagine it would also be related to harmonics. After all, the human body is mostly water.

TheRedneck
P.S.: Dark chocolate rules over candy-floss!

Originally posted by TheRedneck
It sounds like we did read about the same phenomena. In normal society, though, this stuff is considered 'bunk' and readily dismissed. Sort of how a few posters have declared the low-freq waves from wind turbines as bunk and dismissed them. (Don't you love how I steered back on topic?

)

That's what i don't get though, the low frequency research is peer reviewed and accepted by mainstream science. The only contention sould be if wind turbines produces these sounds and if these turbines produce enough energy to broadcast those sounds over a long distance.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
If there is a connection between the turbines and the physical symptoms claimed, I would imagine it would also be related to harmonics. After all, the human body is mostly water.

Very very interesting concept, the idea of the human body being a giant ear because of the water content. However it would have to be researched

Originally posted by TheRedneck
TheRedneck
P.S.: Dark chocolate rules over candy-floss!

Let's not get this off topic, but lets face it, my candy floss believers would destroy you

reply to post by Quazga


no, i have not studied that and thank you for the nice comment on my avatar.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman

Originally posted by nyk537

Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities

We are never going to be able to drive cars, fly planes, or sustain a military on wind power. It's a pipe dream that offers no real solutions. Sure it may provide a few percentage points of our energy needs, but it is never going to be a solution.

Won't directly power cars, fly planes but with developments in Hydrogen storage around the corner the energy from turbines can easily be converted into hydrogen as a fuel stock.

Just a thought, not an answer.

This post is counterfeit. I did not say that so Thebudweiserstuntman, you should get better acquainted with how to quote.

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

So, can we all conclude here that windmills are indeed producing out of range frequencies that are detrimental to human health and should be at least 10 or so miles away from any populated areas?

E.g. Oceans? Deserts?

So we have to agree because a bunch of people here who aren't educated with wind turbines enough to make any kind of scientific input, believe them to be harmful?

This all reminds me of the power lines fiasco a few years ago. I live near the high frequency one, have for years, and am as healthy as can be.

I suggest if anyone wants to make any valid argument, before they discredit anything is to have first hand knowledge of the things. Unless you have done the research yourself, or there is a huge medical outbreak because of them, not just one doctor here or there who wants their name in the paper, then just shut up.

reply to post by Agent Styx


I agree. I just thought to stipulate a little in order to still make them a viable source of energy. So I think the best source of wind is off shore anyway, so why not place them there?

Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
reply to post by Agent Styx

 

I agree. I just thought to stipulate a little in order to still make them a viable source of energy. So I think the best source of wind is off shore anyway, so why not place them there?

That is a good idea but salt water is highly corrosive, especially to moving parts. So i bet it would take special equipment. So that means the price for them goes up as well.

I also read a article, i think Popular Mechanics..where they were going to use ocean waves on a beachhead that pushed turbines. That would be cool to see work.

reply to post by Optix


Well see, I know where I live, the beaches near me have considered to put the megawatt producing wind mills at least 11 to 12 miles off the coast. So that way, no disturbing of suburban, rural, or city areas would occur. Now what the affects on animals or other creatures of the sea it would have on, I do not know. Some research is in order I guess.

I have heard of the underwater versions so I think th engineers are educated enough to know to design them with metals that are immune to corrosive salt water effects.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by euclid
Well, all I can say is, we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally don't like seeing anyone in pain, mentally or physically. And if something is causing that pain, I believe it is torture and a tragedy to ignore it.

As for the asylums, I have sympathy for everyone in there. I lived through clinical depression for 5 years myself. I've seen that hell. Perhaps until one sees it, they cannot imagine it actually exists.

TheRedneck

Actually, when I was younger (early 20's) I had to take prozac and xanax for 2 or 3 years.... so I know first hand what I'm talking about (inside/outside the "hospital").

I don't need them anymore (because as I have said in a previous post.... it is a mental/psychological issue). I changed my "mind" about being depressed. Now I do not need medication or counseling for over 20 years. Additionally, diet plays an important factor in maintaining a healthy, chemically balanced brain. Those people in there are there because they cannot cope with reality and they don't eat well. Only they can change their "minds" either by their own mental efforts and lifestyle; or with the help of proper dosages of medication and lifestyle changes.

If I was able to do it then there is no reason that ANYONE can't overcome their psychosomatic, hypochodriatic mental fuddle. All it takes is a physically undamaged brain, focus and the mental WILL to change ones MIND-STATE; and you/anyone can do it too.

-Euclid

[edit on 18-8-2008 by euclid]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by euclid]

reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities

So, can we all conclude here that windmills are indeed producing out of range frequencies that are detrimental to human health and should be at least 10 or so miles away from any populated areas?

Actually, I can't go that far. All I can agree to is there may be detrimental effects to some people's health, and there should be investigation. A moratorium on building new windmills within a reasonable distance of homes until that is done would also be prudent IMO, but nothing more unless a problem is identified with more certainty.. A small number of complaints does warrant caution and research, but I don't think it would warrant drastic action unless it is verified.

reply to post by Agent Styx

I suggest if anyone wants to make any valid argument, before they discredit anything is to have first hand knowledge of the things. Unless you have done the research yourself, or there is a huge medical outbreak because of them, not just one doctor here or there who wants their name in the paper, then just shut up.

That's quite a statement. Do you mind if I borrow that the next time someone brings up how 'toxic' CO2 is, or how the planet is doomed because of Global Warming? Telling people to shut up seems to be much faster and more efficient than presenting factual evidence. [/sarcasm]

reply to post by euclid

If I was able to do it then there is no reason that ANYONE can't overcome their psychosomatic, hypochodriatic mental fuddle. All it takes is a physically undamaged brain, focus and the mental WILL to change ones MIND-STATE; and you/anyone can do it too.

If you'll reread my post, you'll see I already did it. I didn't need counseling or medication either. I pulled myself out of it through nothing more than willpower and time. Why didn't you? Why were you so weak that you needed help? You should be stronger than that!

No, I take all of the above accusations back. I don't think that way. I just thought it might help to give you an idea of what you are doing to others when you demand that their situation develop as yours did. Everyone is different and we all respond to things in a different way. If that concept is above you, then I truly pity you.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


It is true. I WAS weak (for a time)..... but being at the bottom and then taking an objective look at my situation was what I needed; and then I pulled my self up by my boot-straps and realized there was no need to be where I was and in the state of mind that I was. So by the same token... the old lady crying because something is being built a half-mile away needs to reevaluate what is going on in her head..... and that's the point.

-Euclid

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities

So, can we all conclude here that windmills are indeed producing out of range frequencies that are detrimental to human health and should be at least 10 or so miles away from any populated areas?

Actually, I can't go that far. All I can agree to is there may be detrimental effects to some people's health, and there should be investigation. A moratorium on building new windmills within a reasonable distance of homes until that is done would also be prudent IMO, but nothing more unless a problem is identified with more certainty.. A small number of complaints does warrant caution and research, but I don't think it would warrant drastic action unless it is verified.

Well, I think the first step may be to assume that they do have some type of effect on humans and possibly other animals. Then next is to see the range and intensity of these frequencies because obviously they must dissipate over a particular distance proportional to their wattage production.

Also, just targeting some people is not sufficient. If some people are hyper-sensitive, then people who are hypo-sensitive still do not want to be bombarded with potentially dangerous levels of frequencies.

It is the same reason I would never again touch a diet product containing aspartame (or any artificial sweetener for that matter). Over a long period of time, there are possible huge detrimental effects to humans from that artificial sweetener.

Originally posted by SKUNK2
This is a load of BS, wind turbines cause no such "health" problems. Loads of people in Holland live next to them and experience no problems what so ever.
This is just another misinformed ignorant American report...

Considering they contain large electromagnets I wouldn't be so sure, plus the very low vibrations that emanate from the larger turbines maybe problematic for minority.

[edit]
Ohh forgot to mention that I'd still prefer this to some dirty fossil fuel station or nuclear station.

[edit on 19/8/2008 by spitefulgod]

Has anyone brought up the idea of the constant, beating of the blades day in and day out would mimic the mother's heartbeat in the womb?
I'm not sure if there is any connections with bodily clocks and repeated cyclic sounds but if so, this would be really bad on ones health. (Getting things inside the body out of sync)

reply to post by nyk537


Can someone tell me what is Sherry Eaton's medical expertise background, which gives her insight into knowing just what kind of medical dangers there are with these wind turbines?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


"The electric generating windmills in most of the Nethrlands are in Denmark and are located offshore. We're talking here about something basically in people's back yards vs something out to sea. (I'd like to call out your nationality for being ignorant now... unfortunately I don't know where you are from, so typical ignorant humans)"

first of all, Denmark and the netherlands are two different countries.

and it is true that SOME of the electric generating windmills in Denmark are located offshore, but far from all of them... in denmark, we have 5287 windmills, and only 214 of these are at sea.

so i would like to call you ignorant, and just say - research, research...

Here in Ontario, the PTB have forced giant wind turbines as close as 200m from people's homes. It is now illegal to try to oppose any project (Green Energy Act)

This not only makes the nearby homes unsellable but now case after case of health problems are coming forward all across the province.

Similar symptoms are being reported in Maine, Japan and other places where the turbines were sited too close to homes.

If you want to waste huge tax subsidies on intermittent, unreliable power that must be backed up by fossil fuel 24/7...fine...but keep them AWAY from homes and families.

Please read more on the health problems here: windconcernsontario.org...

Spain pays renewable energy suppliers up to 11 times more than those who produce conventional power. Denmark’s reliance on wind power translates into the highest electricity rates in Europe. The U.S. government subsidizes wind power at $23.34/MWh compared to natural gas generation (25 cents), coal (44 cents), hydro (67 cents) and nuclear ($1.59).

source: tonto.eia.doe.gov...