Border Patrol shoots man at U.S.-Mexico line

Border Patrol shoots man at U.S.-Mexico line

www.msnbc.msn.com

The Border Patrol said the agent feared getting struck by a rock, but the shooting drew swift criticism from Mexican authorities.

"This incident is of great concern to the government of Mexico," said Remedios Gomez Arnau, the consul general in San Diego. "Under no circumstances would it be justified to shoot lethal or non-lethal objects to the Mexican side of the border."

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.kswt.com

Not justified to shoot lethal or not lethal objects to the Mexican side of the border. OK so it is ok to be throwing rocks at the border patrol? Some have been seriously injured when struck by rocks. But also lets not forget the explosive devices that have been set on the roads along the border. If shootings like this become more common place maby there wont be so many people crossing illeagly.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

So it is ok to shoot someone for throwing a rock? What if they stick their tongue out at you, can you at least punch them for that? I think you need some "Do unto others..." time.

maybe this will let them know it is not okay to cross into our country and have shootouts on our freeways, or maybe it will let themm know that we are tired of their military or ex military coming into our country to kill rival drug dealers and endanger civilians.

I hope they don't punish the officer that shot the idiot in the butt.

There is something called the "Lethal Force Continum." It's the guidelines used by most LEO's. (Atleast it was used when I was in the DOJ) It's the amount of force that can be applied, use of deadly force included, in various situations.
If somebody raises a fist...no you can't shoot them... but you can use enough force, ie..ASP batons...pepper spray..physical force, to make that person comply with instructions.
A rock, a baseball bat, or other "weapon" can be construde to be an immenent threat to the officer...especially if they aren't wearing any protective gear.

Sticking a tongue out = ASP baton to the knee - takes the fight right out of them

Rock raised over the head = Drop him like a bad habit

I don't get why Bush was so obsessed with showing our "power" in Iraq when we've got Mexico right on our own border in need of a good butt whooping.

They're always so protective of their "citizens" who try to immigrate here illegally, all while doing nothing to curb the drug lords and gang violence that keeps spilling out of their cesspools and into the United States.

Now don't get me wrong. I could care less about the illegal immigrants who are just here for a better life and aren't causing any trouble. I understand that they are willing to do jobs that most Americans would only do for an unreasonably large salary. Whatever.

But there's also the element that comes here seeking new gang territory or drug markets. There's the guys in military uniforms that come into our country and intimidate our citizens. There's the ones who come over hear and mooch off our system, but never pay any taxes back into it. And if anything should happen to any of these people, Mexico pitches a fit.

I've had enough of hearing about it, and yes, I think we need a militarized fence on the border to put a stop to it. Funding? I'm sure there's some evil dictator somewhere that we're spending millions of dollars to prop up, whose support we could actually do without.

Originally posted by damwel
So it is ok to shoot someone for throwing a rock?

Yes, because a rock can cause serious injury or death.

The only reason we are having this confrontations in our borders with Mexico is because We the American citizens do not have enough cojones to March straight to the borders and do our civil duties to protect those borders.

If we show enough force our government will have not choice but to take its citizen's side.

Throwing a rock can be considered attacking you with a weapon.
It all depends how you look at it.
I mean to shoot someone in the arm to stop them throwing the rock ok, but to blow there brains out for throwing rocks is going a little overboard.

Damwel,
Spend some time down on the border. Whole towns on OUR side of the border are overrun. People are being kidnapped and murdered everyday. Constant incursions by Mexican Military in suport of drug cartels. Its not a joke. The morale of our BP is worse than at anytime in our history. Agents are being harassed by they're own government and told NOT to uphold our laws. Being reprimanded over doing they're job in the lawful manner. Drug cases are swept under the rug or 'lost' in transit. Like I said, spend some time down there with the locals before you bother with your "peace, love, groovy" outlook. Its a shooting war and its right on OUR doorstep!!! And comming to your town in the VERY near future!!


Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


I appreciate that real problems do exist at the US/Mexico border, but what you portray sounds more like some sort of "B" movie or wild exaggeration at the least. I mean, really, Mexican Military making incursions on U.S. soil? I seriously doubt this, and much of the rest of your story as well.
Its just so easy to pick a target group and blame all ills on them. Your government does not hesitate to trample on sovereign territory anywhere in the world, but won't intrude on the states soil when foreign armies cross the border? Please, how can you expect anyone to believe this?

Reply to Damwel:

I have noticed over the five years that I have been out of government employment that while the majority of Americans still believe in the nation-state, especially the nation-state of the United States of America, the federal government, and apparently many of the state and local governments do not. Apparently, being a legal citizen of another nation is no longer an impediment to simply walking over our border and claiming economic "rights". The ONLY rights that exist legally in this country are the rights granted by the Constitution. Other "rights", dreamed up by the world's Jimmy Carters, are called by them "God given rights". Fine, let God enforce them, because it would be an illegal act for US law enforcement personnel to do so. A border crosser who threw a rock at me would be just a pink mist and a memory. I don't know where you live, but where I live that would never even make it to a trial docket.

Wayno,
Heres a few links for you to look at. Since you are not in the US, i suggest you spend some time reading. I AM NOT MAKING ANY OF THIS UP!!!! I HAVE BEEN THERE, SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES. I HAVE FAMILY THERE.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

patterico.com...

lonestartimes.com...

articles.latimes.com...

heres some links to the kidnapping problem:

www.signonsandiego.com...

www.cnn.com...

Zindo

Originally posted by Interestinggg
I mean to shoot someone in the arm to stop them throwing the rock ok, but to blow there brains out for throwing rocks is going a little overboard.

The border agent in this case did not blow out anyone's brains. From the above article:

Edgar Israel Ortega Chavez was shot Tuesday night in his left buttocks and was in stable condition, according to a spokesman for Hospital General in Tijuana who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss the matter.

Ok, maybe I didn't phrase myself well. What I meant to say was you don't take a life if your opponent has a rock. As someone mentioned above, shoot them in the arm or disarm them somehow. As for a baton to the knee for sticking out your tongue... You have a real future in the Cincinnati Ohio police department.

Originally posted by damwel
Ok, maybe I didn't phrase myself well. What I meant to say was you don't take a life if your opponent has a rock. As someone mentioned above, shoot them in the arm or disarm them somehow. As for a baton to the knee for sticking out your tongue... You have a real future in the Cincinnati Ohio police department.

No one, and I mean NO ONE is taught to shoot for an arm, too big a chance to mis. you don't shoot your gun to wound, you shoot to kill. Every police, millitary, and hunter is taught that from day one. If you shoot to wound, say an arm or leg, and miss and hit someone else, youa re screwed. In a tense situation, you shoot for central mass, which means the chest area. Evenyour hardened snipers would be hard presse to hit a target as small as an arm fom any distance with a handgun in a split second. That pistol sharpshooter crap only works in movies and tv.

Originally posted by damwel
Ok, maybe I didn't phrase myself well. What I meant to say was you don't take a life if your opponent has a rock. As someone mentioned above, shoot them in the arm or disarm them somehow. As for a baton to the knee for sticking out your tongue... You have a real future in the Cincinnati Ohio police department.

Wrong. Everyone (except people in certain places like DC and CA) have the right to protect themselves (and others) from the threat of great bodily harm or death. A rock can easily kill or maim, so there you have it. The issue is not really defense here, it's the possible results of threatening someone with physical harm or death.

And I have to add this, with your passive attitude, depending where you live, you (and your family) may have a real future as a victim of violent crime.

I realy dont care if the Mexican government doesnt like it.

to the agent who protected himself and, as I see it, our citizens. In fact, I think I will send him a letter so he knows how many people have his back on this.

That agent had every right to do what he did. Good for him. IMO we need more border patroll just like him.

reply to post by wayno


Come to the Southern Arizona and check it out. Mexican military has carried out assassinations for gangsters as far north as Phoenix. They have probably been farther than that, but haven't been spotted for what they are. Phoenix is the kidnapping capitol of America thanks to gangs of illegals. Illegal immigrants come here helped by a criminal organization that sends back a million dollars a day from extortion carried out in drop houses in the Phoenix area. This is a serious problem that people just love to ignore. I am so tired of people who don't know better crying about how these poor people are just here for better jobs. These people have no respect for law authority, or the rights of Americans. They want to do what they want to do and you are racist for not allowing them to do it. I am so sick of the greater Hispanic community allowing the criminal element to exist and flourish in their midst.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Interestinggg
I mean to shoot someone in the arm to stop them throwing the rock ok, but to blow there brains out for throwing rocks is going a little overboard.

The border agent in this case did not blow out anyone's brains. From the above article:

Edgar Israel Ortega Chavez was shot Tuesday night in his left buttocks and was in stable condition, according to a spokesman for Hospital General in Tijuana who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss the matter.

hahaha he shot him in the butt thats to funny
Well fair enough I think if you throw rocks at border guards getting shot in the butt is ok.No big deal about this then.