If there is no air in space, how do they use rockets to position the space shuttle?, page 4

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reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:33 PM by letthereaderunderstand

reply to post by Manasseh

Thanks for your kind words Manasseh. I want you to know that I believed everything science (Psyence...disinfo for the internal workings of man) told me, just like I pledged my allegiance to a flag and that is the root of the problem.

No one is allowed to think for themselves anymore, because of this puffed up pride everyone has. It is there own pride that makes them not see. I am just as guilty. I began to ask my self, why I would believe things that I can not prove with my own witness. I realize there are many amazing people out there working hard, but not with there own intuition which has way more to teach them then any textbook could. There are to many interests behind the institutions that teach private and public.

I know that "Power" is what makes the world go round, not money, because all are slave to the ones in control of power. First Power is Electric(ArK), Second is Oxygen, Third H2O...Red, White and Blue, Electron, Photon, Neutron...Past, Present, Future. It's the patterns we need observe for this is intelligence, pattern recognition, analysis, and response therefore anyone that claims intelligence should be able to do these things for himself, but we have gotten lazy in teaching ourselves to search out that tactile analysis in order to make a judgment based on sound inspection.

Honestly a little boy or girl would be able to tell you how "space" works, better than any institution, currently set up.

Peace

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:37 PM by Manasseh

No one is allowed to think for themselves anymore, because of this puffed up pride everyone has

OK, now we are getting somewhere.

Pushing against nothing will get us nowhere.

Angels show up, and they don't even know they are angels.

Might I add, God works in mysterious ways, and this is one
of his mysteries.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by Manasseh]

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:40 PM by EnlightenUp

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by EnlightenUp

I can tell you are trying.

You are talking about inertia.

I am talking about thrust.

Two different concepts.

But thanks for at least a respectable attempt.

Thrust comes about because of inertia. Each molecule of burned propellant can be thought of as a tiny bowling ball. Now imagine accelerating countless numbers of them to a very high velocity in roughly the same direction.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:41 PM by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by m4j35t1c12
*Palms forehead hardcore.... Are you on drugs buddy? Anybody who's wondering what I'm referring to, read this mans post on page 2 about his "beliefs." You are so wrong, it's retarded. I deem you town idiot.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

Thank you for your heartfelt response, I never said I knew the answers. None the less, being deemed an idiot by you feels good. I'm smiling for you and I hope you are blessed tonight. Peace

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:43 PM by Taledus

Originally posted by Manasseh

No one is allowed to think for themselves anymore, because of this puffed up pride everyone has

OK, now we are getting somewhere.

Pushing against nothing will get us nowhere.

Angels show up, and they don't even know they are angels.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with rockets in space

I am finding a hard time following your thoughts considering they lack any form of cognitive thinking, or applicable logic, to the original question. Please re-state your question and theory because this is getting absurdly redundant.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:43 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by Manasseh

Rockets work better in a vacuum - in fact about 10% better than in an atmosphere - because the flame emerging from the rocket's nozzle doesn't have to push any air out of the way. One of the great fallacies about rockets or any kind of jet propulsion is that they must have something to "push" or "react" against, so how can they work in space, where there is nothing to "push" against? Rockets are actually a perfect demonstration of Newton's Third Law of equal and opposite reaction.

Once a rocket's flame leaves the nozzle, it has no further function. All the work is done inside the combustion chamber and nozzle, where the gases expand and build up their maximum velocity and are guided in one direction by the nozzle - it is the velocity of the gases going one way, that, by Newton's Third Law, makes the rocket go the other way, and once the gases leave the nozzle, they provide nothing more than spectacular fireworks. However, in the atmosphere, the gases emerging from the nozzle have to fight against the atmospheric pressure, which chokes the rocket and reduces its efficiency. As the rocket ascends higher, and the atmospheric pressure drops off, the rocket's efficiency increases.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:44 PM by FlySolo

Ok, I got one. Your standing in the middle of an ice rink and you need to get to the other side, without moving your feet. All you got is two buckets full of hockey pucks.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:45 PM by jamamiss

Definition of thrust: "When a system expels or accelerates mass in one direction the accelerated mass will cause a proportional but opposite force on that system." Air is NOT required.

The moon DOES have a slight atmoshere; however, that had nothing to do with the Lunar lander lifting off.

Kinetic energy is the energy of motion, not necessarily forward motion.

Rocket thrust does NOT need gravity or air to "push against."

The main friction in OUR space travel is gravity.

Oxygen is NOT premixed in with the fuel, which is typically hydrogen. The two are combined at the time the thrust is needed. That is how the fuel burns with no air.

Side Note--This causes a reaction in which H20 (water) is formed. So much of it is formed that astronauts do not need to bring much water with them. This saves on fuel as water is fairly heavy to tote. Also, so much water is produced that it has to be dumped in space.

We HAVE been to the Moon. Anyone who believes differently is ignorant of the facts.

Knowing that the above items are fact should NOT affect one's belief in God. In fact, denying these things because of God means you are limiting God. He gave humans a mind. Only the foolish refuse to use theirs.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:46 PM by alien

HIDEY HI FELLOW CAMPERS!!!

Just a polite request here:

Please discuss and debate the topic - not the person.

Theres no need to descend down the path of insults or inferences here.

I'll be going through this thread and editting/deleting those replies that contain such.

Peace,
ALIEN

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:47 PM by Recalcitrant

Ok, I'm sure I'm simply feeding the most retarded troll post ever... because if it's not... then I have lost all faith in humanity...

Rockets are different from jets. Chemical propulsion (which most of our "acknowledged" vehicles operate on) requires fuel and and oxidizer. In the case of a jet - the fuel is jet fuel, and the oxidizer is the air. In a rocket - it carries BOTH fuel and an oxidizer.

Now, many people have noted the conservation of momentum. This is ABSOLUTELY how a rocket works. You combine the fuel and oxidizer, they ignite, and exhaust gasses travel out the back of the rocket nozzle. Now, momentum is mass*velocity. So, if you expel X amount of mass at a certain speed out the back of the nozzle as exhaust gasses, then the "rocket" will move forward in the opposite direction in proportion to it's mass.

(For the more technically inclined - yes, I have left out how to calculate acceleration and all that - I'm just trying to make it as simple as possible for the generally ignorant)

I still can't believe that the OP couldn't figure this out with a Google search... maybe you should turn off the "Jerry Falwell plug-in" that scrubs anything from the search results that doesn't boil down to "...because Jesus made it that way...."

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:47 PM by jamamiss

reply to post by FlySolo

If you throw the hockey pucks in one direction, you will move in the opposite direction.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:47 PM by Manasseh

reply to post by EnlightenUp

Then those molecules would continue their journey into supposedly endless space, without any affect on the propulsion plant producing them.

Molecules without any resisting force will continue to travel away from the force that produced them without any affect on the initial molecule producing force.. How much does a molecule weigh? How many molecules must one produce to produce just one pound of thrust, when there is nothing to push against.?

Weight is a product of gravity.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:48 PM by Manasseh

reply to post by jamamiss

Because of the resistance of the air.

Basic physics.

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:48 PM by m4j35t1c12

Hey man, I'm a christian and I believe in Christ and God, and the bible, but what you're doing is ignoring FACTS. They are true, not opinion, it's absolutely proven true. You cannot deny facts, otherwise you're ignorant. On the flipside, I will be praying for YOU tonight, and hoping you come off whatever dillusion you are believing in and wake up to the truth. You are a cultist it seems though, so there will be no logical reasoning with you. Good day village idiot.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by m4j35t1c12
*Palms forehead hardcore.... Are you on drugs buddy? Anybody who's wondering what I'm referring to, read this mans post on page 2 about his "beliefs." You are so wrong, it's retarded. I deem you town idiot.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

Thank you for your heartfelt response, I never said I knew the answers. None the less, being deemed an idiot by you feels good. I'm smiling for you and I hope you are blessed tonight. Peace

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:49 PM by abelievingskeptic

reply to post by Manasseh

Since you love labeling people arrogant and know it alls (which stinks of self righteous better than thou arrogance at its smelliest) and plainly said you know more than other people and since you are so intent on disproving the tens of thousands of scientists since Newton who have tested, experimented and theorized about the laws of physics, what is your theory on propulsion in space oh great one?

I have no doubt there very well could be contradictions and maybe even misunderstood findings about what we know that makes this universe operate, but the way you are coming off is a fricken joke.

Actually its quite disgusting...

Did you begin this thread with the real intent of trying to understand something you do not know or with idea you were gunna spread your "love and warmth" of your religion?

Oh and maybe your judgement is upon you...

this is one of the worst threads I have ever seen on ATS...

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:50 PM by guyatstore

reply to post by Manasseh

See i had to join this silly site just to join in on this convo. See to prove this whole thing wrong to your stupid self let me explain. To say there is no air in space. We would of had to been to space to find out. But as you say we have never been to space. So you either have to agree we have been to space or we have not. We have been to space u fool. Its been proven. This just shows ur stupidy. Thanks

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:50 PM by jamamiss

reply to post by Manasseh

You don't have to PUSH against ANYTHING to get thrust!!! Don't you get that?

reply posted on 13-8-2008 @ 11:51 PM by Taledus

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by EnlightenUp

Then those molecules would continue their journey into supposedly endless space, without any affect on the propulsion plant producing them.

Molecules without any resisting force will continue to travel away from the force that produced them without any affect on the initial molecule producing force.. How much does a molecule weigh? How many molecules must one produce to produce just one pound of thrust, when there is nothing to push against.?

Weight is a product of gravity.