If there is no air in space, how do they use rockets to position the space shuttle?

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by Phage

 

OK smarty pants, then you tell me. What is the burning of the rocket fuel pushing against to move the space shuttle.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by Manasseh]

You know, you may be on to something. They are lying! There must actually be air in space.

If there were air in space you would see the shuttle flying like a normal airplane. Have you ever seen pictures of the shuttle "flying" and a near 90 degree pitch even backwards? The shuttle is a true airframe and if there were air in space it could not "fly" at those sharp angles at those speeds and not break apart.

reply to post by truthquest

So true or false: if two people are right next to each other floating freely in a vacuum, and push each other away, they will both move away from each other?

Another example that's incorrect.

This is a different situation, because in your example, you have two bodies of mass in a vacuum, pushing against each other, whereas in the OP's question, you have one body of mass, pushing against nothing.

To answer your example, I think those two people floating in space would only be able to push each other as far as there arms are, they would not be launched from each other.

[edit on 14/8/08 by enigmania]

reply to post by Kryties

Physics 101: All mass has gravity, only the smaller the object, the further away from Earths gravitational field you have to be in order to measure the gravity of the object in question.

Jeah, so? Care to explain how that relates to my post?

Thank you.

I think some people are making the false assumption that space is completely empty between the planets when in fact there is much more there than one realises. Solar Winds for one thing.....

The solar wind is a stream of charged particles—a plasma—that are ejected from the upper atmosphere of the sun. It consists mostly of electrons and protons with energies of about 1 keV. These particles are able to escape the sun's gravity, in part because of the high temperature of the corona, but also because of high kinetic energy that particles gain through a process that is not well-understood at this time.

Many phenomena are directly related to the solar wind, including geomagnetic storms that can knock out power grids on Earth, the aurorae such as the Northern Lights, and the plasma tails of comets that always point away from the sun. While early models of the solar wind used primarily thermal energy to accelerate the material, by the 1960s it was clear that thermal acceleration alone cannot account for the high speed of solar wind. An additional unknown acceleration mechanism is required, and likely relates to magnetic fields in the solar atmosphere.

And another, much more highly controversial matter called Dark Matter

In physics and cosmology, dark matter is matter that does not interact with the electromagnetic force, but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter. According to present observations of structures larger than galaxies, as well as Big Bang cosmology, dark matter accounts for the vast majority of mass in the observable universe.

Not to mention the 'debris' floating in space.




[edit on 14/8/2008 by Kryties]

Im I the only one here or does the OP sound like he is out of his mind?

God doesnt explain crap here, newtons laws of motion apply perfectly however.

When I opened this thread I thought it was worth some thought, but then the OP started poppin off about god? This is one of the worst thread I have ever read.

reply to post by Kryties


So by posting that, are you saying that that Solar Winds or Dark Matter, is what the shuttle is propelling itself against?

If not, what does it have to do with the subject?

It would seem that this thread has run its course. All the necessary answers were given. People are only trolling and insulting at this stage.

What? This is bs, who are you to judge what a necessary answer is. Other threads with much worse trolling aren't closed like that.

This is ridiculous.

[edit on 14/8/08 by enigmania]

reply to post by caballero

This is one of the worst thread I have ever read.

Yet you choose to post off topic about it?

Everyone discuss the topic and not the member!!!!

If you don't like the thread, simply don't post here.

Semper

It would seem that this thread has run its course. All the necessary answers were given. People are only trolling and insulting at this stage.

Thread closed.

ALL READ!

We received several requests - including one from Manasseh/the OP - to reopen the thread because they feel that there's more to discuss. We also received several complaints about posts in the thread (one of the reasons we decided to close the thread in the first place).

After a long staff discussion we decided to reopen the thread, but the thread will be heavily moderated. Any off-topic posts will be removed without further verbal warnings. Any insults will be removed with a warning/point deduction.

If you think the discussion is below your intelligence level, then don't reply to the thread. Several people feel that the issue is worthy of the discussion, and we should all respect that.


[edit on 15-8-2008 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by Gemwolf


THIS, folks...is a great example of why ATS is better than you average website!!

Yeah, I know...way off

Well....I'd like to tell the OP, again, why things in space behave as they do.

We've seen my balloon analogy, we saw an even better Scuba tank analogy....

What needs to be 'imparted' to the OP (sorry for the pun...some will get it) is simple....AIR is not a wall, to be pressed against. A MASS, reacting aganst another MASS, will cause a result. An equal, and opposite reaction....depending on the MASSES involved...it's not hard to understand, when you know science.

Say, just for example, your mass, under Earth's acceleration...and if you live in the USA, is 100 pounds. (this is about 45 Kg in metric terms)

AND, you have a 'thing' which, on Earth, weighs just as much as you...an you're holding it in your arms....and you are in a 'weightless' environment(breathing, of course...we are thinking here, it's a mind experiment)

If you 'throw' the weight, in your arms, that is equal to YOUR weight (and discount the effects of atmospheric friction) then the act of your 'throw' will propel you in the opposite direction, at exactly the same velocity as the MASS that you 'threw'. Each object (you) and the thing that you threw will continue, untl another force exerts itself on either of you.

A wall, for instance.

This is so basic, every tenth-grade student should understand this, in science class...

Originally posted by russ1969
And i also agree that this post is not worthy due to the fact that it takes 2 minutes to google the question and get the correct answer.

First and foremost, I would like to say i am sorry for this statement and it was way off base. And to the O.P, I am sorry. I would expect any topic that is presented no matter what anyone thought of it to be discussed professionally and without ridicule. This a retraction of that statement and I hope all will see how childish this is and uncalled for. here is a link that explains it very well.
howthingswork.virginia.edu...

I hope this helps with your question about how rockets work in space and the space shuttle.

reply to post by Manasseh

God would need some factual tngible evidnce to support it's existance. As we know there are many parameters that completely make this claim ridiculous, one main one being the presence of emotion in a being with the power to create and define a Universe... This is just not a plausible set of circumstances...

So next here is your answer.

How do rockets move in space?
If space is basically a vacuum and void of atmosphere, how do rockets alter the direction and speed of space craft? In other words, how do they "push off" against nothing?

This is a very good question. Isaac Newton worked out the solution and published it in 1687 in his Principia Mathematica. It is phrased as Newton's 3rd law. I'll include all 3 below just in case!

1st: A body will remain at rest or at motion with a uniform speed unless it is acted on by an external force.
2nd: The acceleration of a body with a force acting on it is that force divided by the mass of the body (F=ma)
3rd: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

So the third law basically says that if you shoot out stuff in one direction you will move in the other direction. This is how rockets work in a vacuum. They have a source of fuel which is heated up so that it expands and is pushed out of the rocket. In order to change direction in space rockets have to have little 'thrusters' on all sides (you need 6 in total to maneuver completely in 3 dimensions).

Newton's 3rd law seems contrary to our intuition because on Earth there are lots of sources of friction - providing much easier methods of propulsion, however you might have seen it in action if you have ever blown up a balloon and then let go of it before tying it up. What pushes the balloon all around the room is the air you blew into it escaping.

Also to answer a question further up in the post, about how one object can push against nothing and move. Well the Object is pusshing against itself, if you were able to inhale a large breath in space and expell it with the force of your lungs, you would be able to propel yourself in the opposite direction of the "thrust" you created. That is if you were able to somehow keep yourself from imploding and freezing at the same time...









[edit on 8/15/2008 by Brainiac]

[edit on 8/15/2008 by Brainiac]

READ THIS POST

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by truthquest

 

So true or false: if two people are right next to each other floating freely in a vacuum, and push each other away, they will both move away from each other?

Another example that's incorrect.

This is a different situation, because in your example, you have two bodies of mass in a vacuum, pushing against each other, whereas in the OP's question, you have one body of mass, pushing against nothing.

To answer your example, I think those two people floating in space would only be able to push each other as far as there arms are, they would not be launched from each other.

[edit on 14/8/08 by enigmania]

No, it's the same situation.

Substitute space shuttle with 1 person and the gas with another person. Those two "people" push against each other and their masses separate.

In that example involving two real people, when those two people hold hands together, they constitute ONE mass as a whole, just like the space shuttle.

Create a vacuum in a container with a hose inside and then let the air go in the hose. the hose moves. there, you are a scientist and you have seen propultion in a vacuum.

Let's say two space shuttle astronauts take a float outside the shuttle.

One tries to toss a wrench to the other by pushing it away from his body.

Would the wrench be sent to the other guy (or gal), or would the astronaut
move away from the wrench, sending him away from his buddy?

Originally posted by Manasseh
Would the wrench be sent to the other guy (or gal), or would the astronaut
move away from the wrench, sending him away from his buddy?

Answer: both

Originally posted by Manasseh
Let's say two space shuttle astronauts take a float outside the shuttle.

One tries to toss a wrench to the other by pushing it away from his body.

Would the wrench be sent to the other guy (or gal), or would the astronaut
move away from the wrench, sending him away from his buddy?

The answer is yes. The wrench would move in the direction it was tossed and the tosser would move in the opposite direction. The tosser, having more mass would not move as fast as the wrench. This would be a good emergency procedure if an untethered astronaut found himself stuck away from the shuttle.


[edit on 15-8-2008 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


So, since the space shuttle weighs 165,000 lbs empty on earth, what is it's mass in space, and how much thrust would it take to move such a mass, considering there in no air for resistance?

I was going to ask the same question a month ago..

Then I came to the conclusion that 99% of space is filled with Dark Matter