An Opinion In Two Parts

reply to post by neformore


Since drama is not the intention here, and this thread is not a platform for disgruntled people to vent their frustration, please feel free to close this if needs be.

On a different note, having interacted on the boards with nef on quite a few occasions, I find the accusation of "victimisation" a little out of line and yes, tantamount to an attempt at censorship.

Since drama is not the intention here, and this thread is not a platform for disgruntled people to vent their frustration, please feel free to close this if needs be.

I most certainly won't be closing this thread. I want it to be left open for discussion.

reply to post by budski


" please feel free to close this if needs be. "

This is a prime example of the kind of thing I had cited in my previous posts.

It isn't his forum, and yet because a valid argument contrary to your own has presented itself - you now call on a moderator to close the thread.

Excellent, you are only lending my arguments more credibility with such actions. The fact that you are calling on the moderator I had only just cited acts to add further validity to the points I have made.

You would not have made such a request if you did not have reason to think it would not be answered to your favour - as though it has worked for you in the past...

Thank you.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

That will do. Thank you.

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by budski

 

" please feel free to close this if needs be. "

This is a prime example of the kind of thing I had cited in my previous posts.

It isn't his forum, and yet because a valid argument contrary to your own has presented itself - you now call on a moderator to close the thread.

Excellent, you are only lending my arguments more credibility with such actions. The fact that you are calling on the moderator I had only just cited acts to add further validity to the points I have made.

You would not have made such a request if you did not have reason to think it would not be answered to your favour - as though it has worked for you in the past...

Thank you.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

I didn't CALL for anything - I left an option open.

As I said, this really isn't a thread for making a complaint - there is a perfectly good function for doing that.

As for your reasoning, feel free to go through all my threads, and see if I have EVER said anything like it before.

It seems you just want to pick a fight, and having read the thread in which you claim you were "victimised" I realise I'm dealing with a drama merchant.

I'm not buying into it, so this will be my last post replying to your inane accusations which as far as I can see are totally without foundation.

reply to post by budski


Thanks Budski. The staff will handle it from here on. This is not the thread to have this argument. Let's focus on the actual topic.

reply to post by TruthTellist


I have no vested interest in supporting any individual or viewpoint but I feel I must point out that since being a member of ATS it has been a constant annoyance that some members constantly seem to villify Mods no matter what.

Mods are fully entitled to post their own personal opinions and failure to recognise that it is just that, their own personal opinion, implies a lack of ability to judge things objectively and even an amount of paranoia.

I think that, in general, Mods do a very good job in difficult circumstances and display an amazing amount of impartiality when 'doing their job'.

However, there are occassions where I feel Mods 'gang up' to defend one of their own when one of them is facing justified criticism.
That is something that is not unique to ATS and tends to happen in every type of human social inter-action.
(Sorry I have no specific example of this and I doubt I would post a link even if I did as I think it would possibly stir up a bit of an hornets nest!)

I am sometimes at odds with opinions expressed by Mods posting and also feel that some Mods are on some type of ego trip with an over inflated opinion of themselves.
Fortunately I think they are very much in the minority and I think it is also very true to say that the quality of threads and posts has somewhat deteriorated since some of the most articulate, informed and impartial members have become Mods.
Their reduced posting has definately had a negative effect to ATS, so, on topic eventually, I think that any tool that encourages Mods to post and aids members understanding can only be a good thing and is welcomed.

If you are uncertain if a Mod 'is working' simply scroll down to the bottom of the page in the thread you are viewing and it lists the Mods for that thread.

Moderation And All Things

Being a mod on ATS does come with some cool perquisites, but it's definitely not all peaches and herb. :shk:

Despite being a rather (painfully) vocal critic of the ownership myself, I jumped at the chance to be a mod because I saw it as an opportunity to make ATS better by combining uber mod powers with my extraordinary moral superiority and incomparable sense of justice.

Ummm, yeah...

Well, let's just say being a mod has been far more educational than I could have ever imagined, and my estimation of the benefits I can bring to ATS as a mod are slightly more realistic now.

I do share some concerns about the transformation of members to mods effectively silencing some valuable opinions on the board, but I nonetheless consider it a fair trade, because the same qualities I admired in my fellow members before they became mods make them better mods today.

And let's face it: we need the best mods we can get, because ATS is a particularly challenging environment for moderators.

After all, pretty much every member is here because we question authority, so it's not a big surprise that ATS mods must endure some of the closest scrutiny of any forum staff on the Internet.

It is implicitly understood that by being a mod, any opinions we express on the issues will predictably raise suspicions about our impartiality as staff members.

Personally, I think that's a reasonable and legitimate concern, which is why I encourage anyone who thinks any member of the staff has acted improperly to let us know.

Mods ARE human and CAN make mistakes, allow our personal opinions to cloud our judgment or even deliberately abuse the powers entrusted to us by the site owners, which is why it is essential for everyone -- members and staff alike -- to keep a watchful eye open for misconduct.

Thus I regret the need for a "mod opinion box", but I can also see where it could prove useful.

My understanding is that the use of the box is optional, and that the responsibility remains ours for ensuring that a clear delineation is expressed between our personal opinions on the issues and any action we take as moderators (for which the only legitimate criteria are the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use).

So if it helps reduce misunderstandings, I think it's a good thing.

At least, that's my opinion.




[edit on 8/14/2008 by Majic]

reply to post by Majic

Originally posted by Majic
Personally, I think that's a reasonable and legitimate concern, which is why I encourage anyone who thinks any member of the staff has acted improperly to let us know.

Yes, Majic, that option is available, but who gets to review the complaints? The mods. Doesn't work in real life, doesn't work here.

I agree with the poster who said

However, there are occasions where I feel Mods 'gang up' to defend one of their own when one of them is facing justified criticism.

The wagons get circled immediately when a mod is criticized. Then the offensive begins on the complainer.

I have never seen a mod/SuperMod with a warn flag against them.

Awesome, now they can take the gloves off and beat us up like the intellectual inferiors that we are.

reply to post by jsobecky


If I were to remove your posts for being off-topic, which it is if you take a close look at the first post, I'll probably be accused of "censoring you" because you're “criticising” the staff. There isn't a win-win situation, is there? So I'm not going to remove your post. I'm telling you that it's off-topic so everyone can see that you're off-topic and that we're not "censoring" you. I've already requested that we stay on topic twice in the thread.

Please stay on topic. The post that you made is more than welcome in this thread.

Ladies and Gentlemen...

This thread was started to discuss the concerns regarding the new "Mod as a Member" graphic.

Please insure that subsequent posts focus in this direction.

Thanks. And as my colleague as presented, further/other concerns can be acknowledged elsewhere.

reply to post by Gemwolf


Now see, that's where I believe that is not right. You should be moderating this thread just like any other, personal feelings aside. If it's off topic completely then you put up the big road block sign for the off topic portion. But jso's first post was related enough to the OP, that I am not sure I can see your reasoning there, Gem.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


The discussion is about the new mod/member tags:



I missed anything in Jso's second post relating to that. And see, this is exactly why we remove off-topic posts. It's just going to go on and on. Perhaps it would be best if someone removed Jso's post, my post, your post and this post for being off-topic?

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I am moderating this thread.

Please discuss the topic. If a few side bars occur, then so be it.

We will not have a member specific discussion, as the topic is about the new Mod distinction tag. Period.

Regarding the mod/member disclaimer. It's not forced upon us to use the disclaimer every time we post as a member, it's optional. We can choose whether we want to use it in a post-as-a-member post or not. If the Mod feels that the post should have the disclaimer, he can add it to his post.





edit to add: Or "she" if it's a Moddess...

[edit on 2008/8/15 by Hellmutt]

reply to post by MemoryShock


OK, so the topic is the new mod distinction tag.

What are the parameters we are allowed to discuss?

The nifty grey color?

The tiny, hard to see font?

Or what the tags are intended to achieve, and whether they are effective, from a member's perspective?

As for posting in that other thread, it is already 27 pages long, and we all know that the effectiveness of a thread decreases with the length of the thread, after about 5 pages.

i feel sorry for the ATS mods
after reading this topic,

never have i seen a forum have to go this far
to allow its mod team to show their opinions in topics,

personaly i think this isnt a bright idea
as it just aliantes the mods from other members.

or its may be the fact i have been here a while and so forth

reply to post by Hellmutt


see you almost forgot asala


[edit on 15-8-2008 by bodrul]