Obama: "Under my watch, NASA will inspire the world once again." + McCain position

reply to post by Johnmike


I see. Mocking.

So you're not really interested in discussing anything?
Just gota come in here and smear things like the D'08 forums?

Honestly man. If you want to know how Obama views the space program, the OP provides a very good answer.

If you dont like the answer, thats something you'll have to deal with.


"If you dont think you'll like the answer, perhaps you should rethink asking the question"


[edit on 8/13/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by Johnmike
I guess he was getting a lot of negative feedback for his NASA stance, I know it bothered me.

It's actually much more political than even that. He knew he couldn't go into a small town whose economy is entirely dependent on a unionized government program and promise to cut the funding from that program. It would be downright "un-Democrat-ic" to do so. So he just told the truth creatively. Show me where in his statement he explicitly states he will support the continued development of the Ares V on schedule. He doesn't. It's not going to happen if he's elected, mark my words. He'll continue the Ares I because that will at least keep some portion of the unions happy, even though by itself it's a broken unproductive program. But there are going to be some very disappointed people here come january.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin

Barack Obama:

bama: "We need a real vision for space exploration. To help formulate this vision, I’m going to reestablish the National Aeronautics and Space Council so that we can develop a plan to explore the solar system – a plan that involves both human and robotic missions, and enlists both international partners and the private sector.

And as America leads the world to long-term exploration of the moon and Mars, and beyond , let’s also tap NASA’s ingenuity to build the airplanes of tomorrow and to study our own planet so we can combat global climate change. Under my watch, NASA will inspire the world once again, make America stronger, and help grow the economy right here in brevard county and right here in Florida.

That’s what this election is all about. It’s about raising our sights, seizing this moment, and reclaiming our destiny in this country."

Source
It's pretty simple really.

Obama will tell you what he thinks about space exploration

His detractors will tell you what Rush Limbaugh thinks of Barack Obama's space exploration policies.

I'm not quoting limbaugh or anyone else, I'm giving you MY opinion of what was really said. I don't see any place in that statement that says he will promise to support the full constellation program, and Ares V in particular. In fact, it looks to me more like he wants to completely re-evaluate what role humans and robots should have in space exploration. We already lead the world in the robotic exploration of mars, and soon the moon as well. All Obama has to do to fulfill the promise above is ensure that we remain the world leaders in robotic exploration of the solar system. Show me where he explicitly states he will complete the development of the Ares V. I don't see it. The way I see it, he just "creatively restated" and elaborated on his previous position in a way that would fool people into believing he will support a manned return to the moon and beyond, particularly those that want to be fooled.

reply to post by ngchunter


why does he have to spell it out for you and give you a "war and peace" book of things he'll do?

If he gives a speech on EVERYTHING, every minute detail that he'd aim to allowe to be accomplished, you'd still come in here and argue with him.

he says

Under my watch, NASA will inspire the world once again, make America stronger, and help grow the economy right here in brevard county and right here in Florida.

So - make a list of things that will "inspire the world once again"

NASA doesnt inspire "the world" it only inspires those with a true dedication for space exploration. The potential of ice on mars hit the MSM for about 4 hours. And then it was back to McCain Vs Obama and "omg another brittney story"

When's the last time the world STOPPED WHAT THEY WERE DOING to watch a man walk on the moon? To watch a space shuttle launch. To view through their telecscopes to see the astronauts in orbit?

"nasa will inspire the world" can encompass just about anything you want it to.

Obama does not work for NASA, so how do you expect for him to say

"I want to discover what exists in quadrant 14 subsector alpha gamma betta stardate 2.19402.29"

Its pretty damn ridiculous. His words are right before you - and yet people STILL say he wants to destroy NASA.

[edit on 8/14/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by ngchunter

 

why does he have to spell it out for you and give you a "war and peace" book of things he'll do?

Why do you have to read more into what he says than what is actually there? Don't want to believe me, fine, I have every confidence that I'll have an "I-told-you-so" moment after he's elected.

If he gives a speech on EVERYTHING, every minute detail that he'd aim to allowe to be accomplished, you'd still come in here and argue with him.

Nice claim, try proving it.

he says

Under my watch, NASA will inspire the world once again, make America stronger, and help grow the economy right here in brevard county and right here in Florida.

So - make a list of things that will "inspire the world once again"

Translation: So - fill in the blank with whatever will inspire you. Obama will telepathically hear you and do it.

NASA doesnt inspire "the world" it only inspires those with a true dedication for space exploration. The potential of ice on mars hit the MSM for about 4 hours. And then it was back to McCain Vs Obama and "omg another brittney story"

Not NASA's problem, that's the culture's problem and it's not the government's job to correct it.

When's the last time the world STOPPED WHAT THEY WERE DOING to watch a man walk on the moon?

Apollo 11. They stopped paying attention after that.

To watch a space shuttle launch.

STS-1, if that much.

To view through their telecscopes to see the astronauts in orbit?

I do that currently.

"nasa will inspire the world" can encompass just about anything you want it to.

Which is why it's a meaningless phrase and not a contradiction of his previous position to indefinately delay the development of the Ares V.

Obama does not work for NASA, so how do you expect for him to say

"I want to discover what exists in quadrant 14 subsector alpha gamma betta stardate 2.19402.29"

Strawman, that's not what I said. I said nothing in his statement contradicts his previous promises or position on cancelling the Ares V. He doesn't have to specifically outline what he hopes NASA to discover to specifically outline what he wants NASA to do. I thought someone pretending to be intellectually honest could make that distinction and understand my point. But perhaps pretending isn't enough...

[edit on 14-8-2008 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


your digging for arguments that simply dont exist

What things will inspire the world? What things can nasa do, that they don't CURRENTLY have funding for (funding was turned down by the current administration)


By simply giving NASA more money - you are allowing them to expand their own horizons.

Its up to NASA to inspire. Its up to OBAMA to make sure they have the funding to do it.

He's saying he's going to help them.

Why do you expect him to be the one in there building the rocket?

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by ngchunter

 

your digging for arguments that simply dont exist

You're reading in promises that simply don't exist.

What things will inspire the world? What things can nasa do, that they don't CURRENTLY have funding for (funding was turned down by the current administration)

Maybe they could contract out for a better replacement vehicle to fill the gap between the shuttle and the CEV. Maybe they could finally launch the AMS to the ISS. Barack mentioned one added shuttle mission, surely that's what he meant. Maybe NASA could reinstate many of the science missions that they cancelled at the time the VSE was announced, even though hardware was already built. What Obama said could mean any of these things, it does not amount to a reversal of his previous position on its own, no matter how badly you want to read that into it.

Why do you expect him to be the one in there building the rocket?

I've had it with these stupid strawmen arguments. I didn't say anything of the sort. It's real simple wiggy, he either said he changed his mind about ares V or he didn't. He never directly addressed the fate of the Ares V and the ability of the orion spacecraft to reach the moon. If you want to be ignorant and read more into the statement than is actually there for whatever reason, political or otherwise, go right ahead, I no longer care. Your mind's already made up. All you had to do was show me where he specifically said he would support the full mission of project constellation, you can't do it and so instead you resort to these stupid insulting strawmen comments. Being direct and honest shouldn't be hard for a presidential canidate, it's not too much to ask, and it's certainly not on the level with "expecting him to be the one in there building the rocket."

reply to post by ngchunter

I've had it with these stupid strawmen arguments. I didn't say anything of the sort

Awwww

You can leave the name calling at the door.

Your expectations of Barack Obama where NASA is concerned directly relate to wanting him to be there building it himself.

What do you expect? Him to know everything about everything, and everything about everyone?
What do you expect him to talk about?

How the quatum physics of the flux capacitor directly correleate to the dark matter found in subsector alpha-prime nebular 6? (i made all of that up, mind you)


Seriously.
He's all for expanding and revamping NASA.

"CHANGE"

As NASA exists today - nobody pays attention to them.


CHANGE that. REVAMP that. Make people care again.

But i guess that'd be the wrong thing to do?

You're right - lets go start another war.
Because America was born of war, so America loves war, and War is GREAT *pounds war drums*

Tiny Isle in the Phillipeans !!!! IM COMING FOR YOU!

ngchunter, mr. wiggin, is it alright with you if I interrupt your clucking to ask a question?

What exactly is the relationship between JPL and NASA. Does JPL simply design and build the propulsion elements of NASA missions? Does JPL have its own missions/budget?
Thanks in advance for your help.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


From what i understand of it-

JPL is the project manager for NASA.

They share seperate budgets.


Is that what you were asking?

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

From what i understand of it-

JPL is the project manager for NASA.

They share seperate budgets.


Is that what you were asking?

Wigs,
No one on earth appreciates the value of editing more than I. But, dare I ask for a little more detail? Only if you know off hand? lol
Sdog

[edit on 8/14/2008 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I'm not exactly sure what precise elements of the relationship between the two you're looking for - so i will tell you what *I* know

(and its not much, and im probably going to be wrong on some things)


Think of NASA as a walmart. It is comprised of many different things. NASA being the overseer, JPL being the Automotive section.

The automotive section has its own internal budget. There is an autmotive section manager who over see's it.


Apply that to this.

JPL is an internal component to NASA. NASA has a budget to give to all of its internal departments, JPL being one of them. JPL takes what NASA gives them and goes with it.

They are also a part of Caltech.

In essence (from their website)

Caltech anchors us in the world of excellence and academic curiosity, while NASA gives us the opportunity to reach for the stars.

They build much of the spacecraft currently being used in today's missions to space







Atleast thats how *I* remember it. Please correct me if im wrong.


But - with all due curiosity - what is the aim of bringing JPL/NASA relations into it?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


The reason. Nothing complicated, I just wanted to get a general grasp of all the variables that affect the application of a "vision" for the space program.



[edit on 8/14/2008 by schrodingers dog]

I see

well i havent had my redbull yet today

So prying information out of that thing i call a brain is not something i'm going to be too good at this morning





My opinion on the space program is that it needs to be our primary focus.
If we can come up with 500 billion dollars for a war

Why cant we come up with 250 billion dollars for the space program?

That encompasses everything.
More ground based telescopes
More telescopes built on hubble technology (just watched a making of the hubble, thats some pretty amazing stuff!)

I've never considered myself an expert in any field of the NASA realm. It just intrigues me like nothing else. I dont take part in conversation in these forums because i relaly have nothing to say other than "we need to explore!"

which is preaching to the choir.

But i do read lots of things here




I believe that both candidates are going to support NASA because there's a call for it like never before.

I believe to "shut down" NASA as some have suggested OBAMA wants to do is just completely asinine.

I believe Obama wants to be a successful politician - and help for NASA is part of that success.

Does that mean i believe he has an intense interest in space exploration? no i dont know what to believe there, thats up to him to decide.

What is important is rather or not he is willing to allow NASA to have the resources to explore their own boundaries.

If the people hold that to Obama, and Obama wants to be remmebered as a good thing, then he'll have to hold himself to the expectations of others.


Its the same as your job

You work hard to make the company more money - not so your boss makes more money - but so you get a bigger bonus check.


When weighed with results - intentions are about as worthless as tits on a boar. Just my opinion

Sure, Obama wants to spend money on space programs, and he has completely changed his mind about NASA.

Anybody interested in buying a bridge? I have a nice one for sell with a good location.

Obama's big plan is to send lots of money to third world dictators to make the world a better place. This is worse than GW's foreign policy. Big corporations are all behind that, because they know all the money will go to U.S. weapons manufacturers. Why spend money on space exploration when we haven't finished destroying our own planet yet. Science smience, who cares about that stuff, we are going to save the planet by giving people, who have demonstrated extremely bad habits to abuse technology, money to tighten their control over the third world.

Hmm, should I give money to advance science, or should I give boat loads of money to my family in Africa? Decisions decisions.

reply to post by poet1b

or should I give boat loads of money to my family in Africa?

1.) What family in africa? Are you suggesting he's suggesting it just purely based on race? I guess poverty, oppression, ethnic cleansing, and disease has nothing to do with it?

2.) Why can't you have both? Science and foriegn aid? We gave Iraq 20 billion to support themselves, when they have an 80 billion dollar surplus from oil. SURPLUS. Stop funding the war, and you are left with 500 billion dollars to divide amongst other more important things.

reply to post by poet1b


A quick point cause I don't want to derail the thread but,

R U Freaking kidding me?

Mr. Republican, your Gall delivery is here.

YOU are going to tell ME about fiscal responsibility? Please begin, I can't wait for this show and tell.

All politics aside, i believe the true future of space lies in the hands of our corporations.

Currently - the only major contender i see is Virgin enterprises.

And unfortunatly - not enough media attention is given to this new realm of space exploration.


When the average american citizen can take a trip into outer space, (financially speaking) - the threshold of our capabilities for space exploration will be almost limitless


Because as i understand it- the most expensive part of space exploration: Getting off the ground


the rest of it is cake.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin

All politics aside . . .

Oh My Non-Dual Awareness of God, the pigs are finally airborne!
That brings me neatly to your next point.

Because as i understand it- the most expensive part of space exploration: Getting off the ground

the rest of it is cake.

Don't sweat the liftoff, we'll let the MIT grads (giggle) at JPL sort that out.
We're vision people!

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


No, I think it's a pathetic turn-around and an example of doublespeak that's basically an outright lie. Political weaseling at its finest, or rather, at its worst, done so poorly than any idiot who's been listing to Obama over the past few months would laugh at this trick.