U.S. Has Spent $100 Billion On Private Contractors Since Iraq Invasion, page 5
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reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 01:36 PM by budski
Perhaps the most damning evidence comes from Lieutenant Colonel Paul M. Burnham, and Colonel Scott Voelker and their conclusion in their USAWC STRATEGY RESEARCH PROJECT on INCREASING COMBAT SUPPORT AND
COMBAT SERVICE SUPPORT UNITS IN THE U.S. MILITARY where the conclusion states:
Contractor shortcomings support increasing the numbers of CS and CSS units in the
military and decreasing contract levels to smaller contingency/peacekeeping operations and minimal support in hostile areas. The military achieved great success in many areas of Iraq managing local contractors themselves. In areas too hostile for LOGCAP contractors, military support units maximized their capability by directly contracting for construction and services with
local contractors. The soldiers directly supervised indigenous work crews inside base camps building facilities to high quality standards, better than what LOGCAP provided. This proved we can contract and supervise locally as well as any LOGCAP contractor.


and

The military must include the proper levels of CS/CSS units to maintain responsiveness to fight and win the nations wars. No matter what the
DoD does to make contract management easier, contractor related problems won't go away in high intensity conflict, we need additional CS and CSS units to support the military in high intensity conflict.


Source

This isn't to say that there isn't a role for contractors, but as the report from the US ARMY WAR COLLEGE states, the role has many problems, is prone to mismanagement, corruption and overcharging and many functions can be replaced more than adequately by the US armed forces, at a better cost and with less risk.

Even using this kind of diplomatic language the conclusion is clear, contractor numbers must be drastically reduced due to a multitude of problems.

It is clear after reading this report that the continued use of contractors in Iraq is politically motivated, rather than a response to the needs of the armed forces and even the wishes of the armed forces, and there is only one real reason for this.

The politicians are making money out of it as can be seen in this thread and in this thread amongst many others.

CASE CLOSED.


[edit on 21/8/2008 by budski]


reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 05:55 PM by DarthAmerica
reply to post by budski



NO NOT CASE CLOSED UNLESS YOU ARE A BIASED HACK

The views expressed in this student academic research paper are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.


Never use a STUDENT ACADEMIC RESEARCH PAPER unless you are qualified to grade it. Of course you are incapable of seeing things for what they are especially with regard to military affairs so I'll apply experienced eyes to this OPINION and decipher it's intent and accuracy. Keep in mind though, I having actually been there unlike you, know full well what the truth is which I already told you. Not to mention my knowledge is much more current. So current in fact that I'm entertaining job offers.






[edit on 21-8-2008 by DarthAmerica]


reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 06:23 PM by budski
OMG THIS IS PRICELESS!!!

Have a chew on
this report while you're at it

And peruse this report as well please General DA

and please could you give us the benfit of your vast experience on the following reports:
www.gao.gov...

www.gao.gov...

www.gao.gov...

www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil...

I could post dozens of these, but really, whats the point - you clearly have no clue, unless you're trying to tell us you are in fact a senior officer - more senior than the officers who wrote the reports.





[edit on 21/8/2008 by budski]



reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 09:03 PM by DarthAmerica
Originally posted by budski
OMG THIS IS PRICELESS!!!

Have a chew on
this report while you're at it

And peruse this report as well please General DA

and please could you give us the benfit of your vast experience on the following reports:
www.gao.gov...

www.gao.gov...

www.gao.gov...

www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil...

I could post dozens of these, but really, whats the point - you clearly have no clue, unless you're trying to tell us you are in fact a senior officer - more senior than the officers who wrote the reports.





[edit on 21/8/2008 by budski]




What's priceless is your arrogance. Those documents prove absolutely ZERO about your assertions and in fact back up everything I've already told you. Remember when you said that the U.S. Army should do all the work of the contractors? Care to explain how that's possible with the necessary personnel being well over 100,000? Don't bother because it's not possible. You also seem to miss that part about the "substantial role" contractors play. Oh, and then the part I already told you about, that OIF is not the first operation where contractors played such a vital role and in fact under President Clinton the same conditions existed yet somehome he isn't demonized like VP Chaney is. Hmm a little selective reading I see. Did you even read what you posted?

www.cbo.gov...

That document is almost exactly what I've been telling you. Read page 14 through 17 and actually read it this time. So you now in addition to my experience, your own post contradicts you on the cost issue.

With regard to corruption. Are you arguing for the sake of it? I already told you that in any large company or where large sums of money are involved there will be corruption. We have auditors and a legal system to deal with this. You are really dealing way above your head.

Questions you can't support or answer with your failed logic,

1. Where would the U.S. Military get the additional 100,000+ troops to replace the contractors

2. Now that your own post backs up what I told you, do you see why contractors are a cost savings to the government? Or are you so biased that page 14-17 slipped your mind?

3. Why no mention of the Clinton years and the Balklands from you?


Good luck and I told you so.


reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 10:50 PM by jefwane
Darth, I appreciate your service, and part of me wishes I was still in some way connected to the Army.

I'm not that familair with the new battallion/squadron organization. I know it has changed quite a bit since I was in not too long ago, but I assume that a battalion or Task Force still consists of 3 line companies/troops/batteries and one or two Headquaters and/or supply companies. I'd hope, from the bravado of your posts you are an 11, 12, 13, 14, or 19 series MOS, or one of the support MOS that is commonly within those battalions.

My main problem with the heavy reliance on contractors besides the things that all other posters have mentioned is best illustrated by the following scenario.

I know this is a poor analogy but I'd like to call it the "Mogadishu Scenario". Your battalion is stationed at a remote FOB, in one of the worst areas to be in. Alpha is detached to a mission many km away from the FOB. Bravo is out on escort of contractors enroute with supplies to the FOB. Charlie has been running a hard OPTEMPO for the past few months and is currently doing a bit of lighter duty like guard duty for the FOB and near patrols for a bit to give the guys a break. Bravo is ambushed and hit pretty damn hard with multiple wounded KIA. Charlie is immediately tasked to relieve and support Bravo. Enroute to assist Charlie has contact resulting in thier own wounded and KIA. Charlie is hit hard enough to be near combat ineffective, but is hard charging and manages to link up with Bravo. They are able to secure a casevac location for a dustoff but there are still a ton of supplies and they are a couple of km from the FOB. Most of the supplies and drivers are still there but they have thier share of wounded themselves. Meanwhile meteorogical conditions are deteriorating rapidly making the availabillity of CAS and helicopter borne reinforcement iffy at best.

In this scenario, a Battilion Commander has two very different set of options if his support is soldiers or contractors. If they are soldiers he can get his clerks, cooks, mechanics, etc, say welcome to the infantry and roll out to support/reinforce the two endangered companies. If the support is contractors he is simply SOL and gets the privelege of watching his men die.

This is my greatest fear in concerns to the reliance on contractors. My secondary concern is that the taxpayer is getting fleeced.


reply posted on 22-8-2008 @ 04:27 AM by budski
reply to post by DarthAmerica



Reply to the USAWC report please general.

Address ALL the points and reports raised by myself and others please general.

your credibilty goes down further every time you post.


reply posted on 24-8-2008 @ 11:59 AM by DarthAmerica
reply to post by jefwane



Thank You. Not to worry though. We do thorough IPB and outside of extreme circumstances no FOB will fall due to contractors. In fact, local security of bases is actually handled under contract in the US and abroad. Also, the support troops would not last any longer against a determined attack force actually capable of penetrating into a FOB. Their combat training is focused on self defense not a coordinated base security plan. You also have to consider deployments. In a hypothetical base security plan requiring 100 personnel to cover multiple shifts ensuring 30 guards available at any given time and a QRF is going to require 300 personnel minimum in a place like Iraq. You would have 100 deployed troops, another 100 preparing to deploy training in the US and 100 troops recovering from deployment in dwell status. Since these are US Troops you have also paid the basic training cost, AIT cost, support cost for the duration of their service before and after the combat deployment. Thats clearly going to cost more than contracting a private security company to provide that security for a fixed term contract where at the end you can either renew or abandon the contract based on need.

It's important to remember that private contracts like this could not exist if not for demand. A demand that far exceeds available man power from the armed forces. This is the reality people don't want to acknowledge when they discuss contractors. It drives other man power reduction methods such as automation and C4ISR. It's a little understood principle of war called economy of force.

This will only increase in importance as warfare increasingly blurs lines with humanitarian assistance, peacekeeping and distant unpredictable expeditionary warfare.


reply posted on 22-10-2008 @ 02:49 PM by boomagoo
I think if we look more into where the money is going we might find something more interesting.
Lets get away from the companies and find out where they get the supplies that they buy with American taxpayer money. (and to note - halliburton and KBR are separate companies now - KBR is an overseas company and hires non Americans as much as they can to make more money off the U.S. government).
Most contracts are required to purchase their supplies (not classified contracts) from countries other than the U.S. If you think about it - war is usually good for America's economy - now it is not! Over 90% of supplies used by our contractors and military comes from outside the U.S. Yes - it might cost a little more to get everything from the U.S. but the economy would boost and the tax revenue would maybe help pay for the war?
I find it disturbing that our soldiers can not even get a real hamburger in Iraq at their dining facilities unless they buy them from AAFES (a company that charges outrageous prices for everything to our soldiers) and then they have to cook it themselves.
One more thing about AAFES - they import Indian workers at very low pay (their coffee shops actually don't pay them the first year - they tell them the cost to bring them there is their first years pay) and then still charge the government the cost of doing business in Iraq. The prices that AAFES charges for items mostly not produced in America is extremely high even though the taxpayer pays AAFES the shipping charges to bring things to Iraq so the soldiers wont have to pay huge prices - which does not work or at least nobody cares.


reply posted on 22-10-2008 @ 02:51 PM by boomagoo
I think if we look more into where the money is going we might find something more interesting.
Lets get away from the companies and find out where they get the supplies that they buy with american taxpayer money. (and to note - halliburton and KBR are seperate companies now - KBR is an overseas company and hires non americans as much as they can to make more money off the U.S. government).
Most contracts are required to purchase their supplies (not classified contracts) from countries other than the U.S. If you think about it - war is usually good for America's economy - now it is not! Over 90% of supplies used by our contractors and military comes from outside the U.S. Yes - it might cost a little more to get everything from the U.S. but the economy would boost and te tax revenue would maybe help pay for the war?
I find it disturbing that our soldiers can not even get a real hamburger in Iraq at their dining facilities unless they buy them from AAFES (a company that charges outrageous prices for everything to our soldiers) and then they have to cook it themselves.
One more thing about AAFES - they import Indian workers at very low pay (their coffee shops actually don't pay them the first year - they tell them the cost to bring them there is their first years pay) and then still charge the government the cost of doing business in Iraq. The prices that AAFES charges for items mostly not produced in America is extremely high even though the taxpayer pays AAFES the shipping charges to bring things to Iraq so the soldiers wont have to pay huge prices - which does not work or at least nobody cares.
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