Soldier Who Refused to Return to Iraq Turns Self in as Protest; Activists Shout Encouragement

Originally posted by intrepid
How long have you been in? Have you never come across someone that feels this way? If you did, would you want a person not commited looking after your back?

Several years. I have yet to come across people who feel like that. I would still let that person watch my back, his ass would be on the line same as mine.

Are you (or have you ever been) in the military?

No. Dad was navy, grandfather army. Tried to sign up during Desert Storm but they didn't want 30something year old rookies.

Then you couldn't possibly understand why anyone in the military would consider that person a coward.

I don't mean to butt heads with you but didn't you read my last post. I was around millitary people most of my life.

Being around them is one thing, actually living the lifestyle and putting your life on the line is another.

Do you do that on a daily basis? I do. I work in a maximum security jail.

Originally posted by intrepid
Do you do that on a daily basis? I do. I work in a maximum security jail.

Yes I do, what is your point. You cannot compare being a guard in a jail to being a member of the military.

No, that's true. You have arms to deal with aggresors. All we have to work with if an inmate, that has only time on his hands, fashions a weapon out of a plastic cup is our partner.

Originally posted by intrepid
No, that's true. You have arms to deal with aggresors. All we have to work with if an inmate, that has only time on his hands, fashions a weapon out of a plastic cup is our partner.

You have a clearly identified enemy, we do not always have that luxury.

You always have back up nearby, we do not.

You don't deploy overseas, we do.


Can we please get back to the original subject?

[Edited on 16/3/04 by COOL HAND]

Look, this is escalating to a point where we both are going to look stupid in a minute. The point was I can see this individuals point, I don't agree with it I just say that , for him,it may be the right decision. You don't have to be in harms way to feel one way or the other, but it helps.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Then you couldn't possibly understand why anyone in the military would consider that person a coward.

You guys should cool it.

I did 7 in the infantry, and if this guy was genuine, which I don't think he is, but if he were, I wouldn't consider him a coward for standing for what he believed.

I would, however, consider him a candyass.

DC

I did 7 in the infantry, and if this guy was genuine, which I don't think he is, but if he were, I wouldn't consider him a coward for standing for what he believed.

He is a coward for the simple fact that he ran away from his duty. There are ways to stand up for what you believe in and still perform your duty. Rather than do that this guy went ahead and took matters into his own hand and went AWOL.

So, are you saying that he could have gone to his superiors, noted his objection, and be assigned to duty that would not conflict with what he felt?

Exactly, all soldiers and sailors have a right to request a transfer. Whether or not that transfer will be accepted depends on the chain of command. Even if the request is denied he can submit it to his higher chain for action.

Yeah, I agree coolhand. This guy is undoubtedly wrong.

If he did believe what he's saying, which he doesn't, and he had approached this in the correct manner, he would be OK in my book, but still a pansy.

But of course if he did meet those conditions, he wouldn't be in the news.

DC

[Edited on 16-3-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Well, the millitary sure has changed. I only knew of a compassionate transfer which usually was only granted in the case of family trouble.

Originally posted by intrepid
Well, the millitary sure has changed. I only knew of a compassionate transfer which usually was only granted in the case of family trouble.

Yes, the military had changed. It is what happens when you go to an all volunteer force and have to fight to keep people in.

The only reason they have to fight to keep people in, is because the benifits used to be good along with the pay.

Now-a-days the pay sucks, and enlisted families often qualify for welfare.

This is not the way to keep a good military.

What should happen, is we should eliminate the bases, majoritively, overseas but keep the spending the same.

Increase pay and benifits, and use them for something useful.

I think the idea of 'transfer' has been confused with 'compassionate reassignment' for cases such as family hardship or dependents' special needs requirements.

If this guy were to stay in, he would continue to function in the same unit, but he would be used as a regular detail monkey. He would spend hours sweeping the motor pool, cleaning out water buffaloes, police call, staff duty, those kinds of things until his contract was up.

If he had the skills, he might work in a PAC office or the S-1, but only if they were shorthanded.

I'm listening to CNN and they're all over this guy. I just don't understand civilians when they make such a big deal out of something like this that happens quite often in the military.

DC

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
The only reason they have to fight to keep people in, is because the benifits used to be good along with the pay.

Do you have an example, because I am pretty happy with the benefits that I get.