Originally posted by JesterMan
. If I cannot make my own decisions should I even be able to think???? Or do I think?? Maybe thinking is just a lie too??

Oh man I think my head is going to explode. Too much new age thinking make JesterMan go CRAZZZZYYY!!!!

Is it the "I" that thinks or something else?

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by JesterMan
I tend to disagree. I just now clapped my hands for no reason at all, other than I felt like doing it.

And you have the reason why you did it, which was influenced by everything you've experienced and experienced at that moment.

.

You are so right! My crazy mind said, "HEY, CLAP" and I listened to it without even putting up a fight. We dont have free will at all, we just do everything our brains tell us to do.

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See if you can find this "thinker". Without using any thought, that is. Can you find it?

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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


You're a troll.

What? I am agreeing with you. I Am the external cause.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
Nope. When he was a kid I told him Jews had humongous peckers. My Bad.

I apologise to global jewry for not realising Hitler penis envy would start a holocaust.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

You're a troll.

Hey dont blame him!!! It was not his choice to be a troll.

Originally posted by JesterMan


If I cannot make my own decisions should I even be able to think???? Or do I think?? Maybe thinking is just a lie too??

Are you really in control of something even as simple as your thoughts?

next time you get a song stuck in your head, try and stop it.

I's damn near impossible. Why? Isn't it "you" that is "thinking about the song"?....then you should be able to stop it running through your head.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth



Don't you think, though, that you are able to start and stop songs in yourhead because you have programmed it as such?

I dont understand why they are disagreeing with you either. All human actions have an external cause, and I am that external cause. And since I have exactly as much proof as you do our argument should be airtight.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

I will say this, while I do think that we can choose right and wrong and to act or not act, I just think that we are predispositioned to make those decisions. This makes me questionthe concept of "free will."

I don't know without some doubt that "free will is a lie," but I do have some genuine questions about it. My tendency is to lean towards determiism or "naturalism" in regards to "free will."

Now, this brings up the question of morality, which is why this is such a toucy tpic. Do I think people should be punished for crimes? Without a doubt. However, I think that it is important for us to try and have a better understanding f why people do what they do. If we can't look beyond the facade, in my opinion, of "free will," we have no real chance of ever being able to do that.

Originally posted by JesterMan
And as betting man, I would hate to ever think that nothing ever just happens at random. That whole idea just makes for a boring world. Don't you think?

Well, I can understand that. However, I think the whole idea of things being "pre-determined" is acually kind of interesting. I mean, like I said in my initial post, my questioning of "free will" just raises morequestions that can be discussed.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


Well, I can understand that. However, I think the whole idea of things being "pre-determined" is acually kind of interesting. I mean, like I said in my initial post, my questioning of "free will" just raises morequestions that can be discussed.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

But how does predetermination exclude free will? I can predict a mans actions without interfering with his abillity to choose said actions.

I mean, if it is true that free will is a lie, then a whole host of other questions arise.

* What force predetermined everything? I have an answer but I'll keep it to myself.
* Why is it predetermined?
* Are we simulations in a cosmic video game?
* What is the force that drives us to do what we do"
* To what end?

It also bings up some interesting questions about death as well. However, we won't get into that here.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

I mean, like I said in my initial post, my questioning of "free will" just raises morequestions that can be discussed.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

Well here is one heck of a question along those lines??

If free will is in fact just a facade, then what reason is there for us (humanity) to be here at all?