The Concept of "Free will" is a lie!!

Originally posted by JesterMan
. If I cannot make my own decisions should I even be able to think???? Or do I think?? Maybe thinking is just a lie too??

Oh man I think my head is going to explode.

Too much new age thinking make JesterMan go CRAZZZZYYY!!!!

Is it the "I" that thinks or something else?

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by JesterMan
I tend to disagree. I just now clapped my hands for no reason at all, other than I felt like doing it.

And you have the reason why you did it, which was influenced by everything you've experienced and experienced at that moment.

.

You are so right! My crazy mind said, "HEY, CLAP" and I listened to it without even putting up a fight. We dont have free will at all, we just do everything our brains tell us to do.

See if you can find this "thinker". Without using any thought, that is. Can you find it?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


You're a troll.

What? I am agreeing with you. I Am the external cause.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
Nope. When he was a kid I told him Jews had humongous peckers. My Bad.

I apologise to global jewry for not realising Hitler penis envy would start a holocaust.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

You're a troll.

Hey dont blame him!!! It was not his choice to be a troll.

Originally posted by JesterMan


If I cannot make my own decisions should I even be able to think???? Or do I think?? Maybe thinking is just a lie too??

Are you really in control of something even as simple as your thoughts?

next time you get a song stuck in your head, try and stop it.

I's damn near impossible. Why? Isn't it "you" that is "thinking about the song"?....then you should be able to stop it running through your head.

reply to post by geek101


To be quite honest, I usually only get songs stuck in my head when I put them there. I am a musician, and I am constantly thinking about music. So in order to stop a song that is stuck in my head, I start another song. I hope that makes sense?/

reply to post by JesterMan



Don't you think, though, that you are able to start and stop songs in yourhead because you have programmed it as such?

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


It is quite possible but then again it could not have been me that programed it.


I can say that I do see how outside influences do affect the decisions that we make, but in the end it is still us that have the final say.

And as betting man, I would hate to ever think that nothing ever just happens at random. That whole idea just makes for a boring world. Don't you think?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth



Don't you think, though, that you are able to start and stop songs in yourhead because you have programmed it as such?

I dont understand why they are disagreeing with you either. All human actions have an external cause, and I am that external cause. And since I have exactly as much proof as you do our argument should be airtight.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

I will say this, while I do think that we can choose right and wrong and to act or not act, I just think that we are predispositioned to make those decisions. This makes me questionthe concept of "free will."

I don't know without some doubt that "free will is a lie," but I do have some genuine questions about it. My tendency is to lean towards determiism or "naturalism" in regards to "free will."

Now, this brings up the question of morality, which is why this is such a toucy tpic. Do I think people should be punished for crimes? Without a doubt. However, I think that it is important for us to try and have a better understanding f why people do what they do. If we can't look beyond the facade, in my opinion, of "free will," we have no real chance of ever being able to do that.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Shazam, certainly. I think you are just trying to lighten things up. Like I said, this tends to be a hot button topic for people because you can't really talk about free will unless you bring morality into the equation.

Originally posted by JesterMan
And as betting man, I would hate to ever think that nothing ever just happens at random. That whole idea just makes for a boring world. Don't you think?

Well, I can understand that. However, I think the whole idea of things being "pre-determined" is acually kind of interesting. I mean, like I said in my initial post, my questioning of "free will" just raises morequestions that can be discussed.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Which is why I come bearing insanity. As the Joker shows Insanity trumps morality.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


Well, I can understand that. However, I think the whole idea of things being "pre-determined" is acually kind of interesting. I mean, like I said in my initial post, my questioning of "free will" just raises morequestions that can be discussed.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

But how does predetermination exclude free will? I can predict a mans actions without interfering with his abillity to choose said actions.

I mean, if it is true that free will is a lie, then a whole host of other questions arise.

* What force predetermined everything? I have an answer but I'll keep it to myself.
* Why is it predetermined?
* Are we simulations in a cosmic video game?
* What is the force that drives us to do what we do"
* To what end?

It also bings up some interesting questions about death as well. However, we won't get into that here.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed



Well, I mean if something is pre-determined, then there is no place for "free will" because what ever happens has already been laid out. In a sense, "pre determination"=control by an exterior force.


[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

I mean, like I said in my initial post, my questioning of "free will" just raises morequestions that can be discussed.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

Well here is one heck of a question along those lines??

If free will is in fact just a facade, then what reason is there for us (humanity) to be here at all?