But still, those cases do exist. And the families are often VERY large.

I thought that family was an isolated case, but it scares me that I'm hearing one, possibly two more examples of families like that just in this small discussion.

It's SO tragic for the kids to grow up in a family like that. The most amazing thing to me was that the adult kids in this family grew up thinking that the way they lived was normal, and even act arrogant towards some of the families they met that had a more stable situation.

Some of the protestants are starting to turn on homeschoolers. This is because Churches have many members who are riding the public school gravy train and see homeschooling as a trend which threatens their pocketbooks. These members pay tithes so many churches have a money motive not to go against public schools.The Catholic church still offers sanctuary for homeschoolers.

Not everyone who home-schools does so for religious reasons; I think it's about half and half. I don't think it's substantiated at all that the backlash against homeschooling ties in to some kind of catholic vs. protestant conflict.

Originally posted by ScienceDada


Parents could voluntarily get a kind of certification if this were available -- and I think this would see a lot of interest, as it would help build credibility in the public eye.

I agree, ScienceDada.
Voluntary. I don't mind anything voluntary. Just don't force me to do it under threat of sending my kids to public school (Ya hear that Sen. Schimeck!).

As of now, in my state I am not required to test my children with standardized tests. I do it anyway, every two years. And I use the same tests the public schools do. Most of the homeschoolers I know do. We aren't scared of the tests, we're scared of the threats. We do most of this stuff on our own to make sure we are giving our kids a proper education. Just don't threaten to take our rights away.

Originally posted by ScienceDada

Psychological testing should then be equally applied to all teachers, including public school teachers and administrators, University professors, tutors, and childcare providers. This would put a lot of people's jobs at risk, and I think that there would still be prejudice against homeschoolers.

Anyone have other ideas?

Don't even even suggest this. The people who are anti homeschooling on this site are probably not people who should judge those who do homeschool. They come across as gossipy old women. The eye that alters alters all.

Those who would test teachers and homeschoolers would use these tests as an excuse to confiscate children. There are many countries in the world that are not so grab happy when it comes to other peoples children. I would move to one of them before I would allow someone who is on the great gravy train to auction the children of homeschoolers off to the numb skulls who would really abuse them. Homeschoolers deserve more freedom not less.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eradown]

Those who would test teachers and homeschoolers would use these tests as an excuse to confiscate children.

What I would suggest to prevent this is to make something on the state level sort of like the Department of Education, but for homeschooling. It would be entirely compsed of parents who are currently homeschooling their children.

This group would have the power to create that voluntary test for the parent that is being discussed.

They could also set the course requirements for homeschoolers and administer standardized tests in that particular state if it is required. They could also make a reccomendation to the parents if they think the homeschooling is not working for a particular child, and help them get into an appropriate public or private school.

What this would NOT be is a group to promote one particular religion over and another, though the parents on the board would be free to practice their own if they wish. It would be a combination of secular and religious parents who have in common that they are homeschooling.

While functioning on a state-wide level, it would not actually be a state agency, but more like the UIL groups.

This would help bring some regulation into the homeschooling world, but prevent government intrusion.

Originally posted by asmeone2

Those who would test teachers and homeschoolers would use these tests as an excuse to confiscate children.

What I would suggest to prevent this is to make something on the state level sort of like the Department of Education, but for homeschooling. It would be entirely compsed of parents who are currently homeschooling their children.

This group would have the power to create that voluntary test for the parent that is being discussed.

They could also set the course requirements for homeschoolers and administer standardized tests in that particular state if it is required. They could also make a reccomendation to the parents if they think the homeschooling is not working for a particular child, and help them get into an appropriate public or private school.

What this would NOT be is a group to promote one particular religion over and another, though the parents on the board would be free to practice their own if they wish. It would be a combination of secular and religious parents who have in common that they are homeschooling.

While functioning on a state-wide level, it would not actually be a state agency, but more like the UIL groups.

This would help bring some regulation into the homeschooling world, but prevent government intrusion.

I disagree. Test scores have already proven the merits of homeschooling. It is a waste of time to test that which has already been tested. Further more , you may not ever homeschool , but this foolishness would be used to put social workers in your house voluntarily of course. If you want them there that is up to you ,but you are a minority among parents. Most people are smart enough not to let authority figures into their houses without a search warrant.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eradown]

Originally posted by asmeone2

But still, those cases do exist. And the families are often VERY large.

I thought that family was an isolated case, but it scares me that I'm hearing one, possibly two more examples of families like that just in this small discussion.

It's SO tragic for the kids to grow up in a family like that. The most amazing thing to me was that the adult kids in this family grew up thinking that the way they lived was normal, and even act arrogant towards some of the families they met that had a more stable situation.

Yes. So, add that to the list of CONS, that freaky, screwey people can go unchecked at the expense of the kids.

In all fairnes, the cases are still rare though. I know literally hundreds of homeschool families, and only 1 where this happened (but they ended up sending all the kids to a private school, so they are no longer homeschooling). But there are several cases, namely the "unschooling" crowd, who I think are doing a disservice to the kids academically or in lack of life skills.

They could also set the course requirements for homeschoolers and administer standardized tests in that particular state if it is required.

Most states already have course requirements and hour requirements for homeschoolers. States that require testing have people to administer those tests. Parents who live in states that don't require standardized testing, but still choose to test their children, are required to have a person who meets a set of qualifications administer the tests.

While states widely differ on homeschooling laws, there are laws and requirements in place already in every state. Homeschoolers don't just make up their own rules.

This would help bring some regulation into the homeschooling world, but prevent government intrusion.

What is it that needs to be regulated?

In all fairnes, the cases are still rare though. I know literally hundreds of homeschool families, and only 1 where this happened (but they ended up sending all the kids to a private school, so they are no longer homeschooling). But there are several cases, namely the "unschooling" crowd, who I think are doing a disservice to the kids academically or in lack of life skills.

Yeah, I put in the OP that I don't like unschooling one bit. I think there are a lot of parents that would use it as a cover for that kind of a case, but that is just my gut feeling.

What is it that needs to be regulated?

NOthing more than what is already in place, that was just an idea to make the regulators the ones that are actually doing the homeschooling.

Originally posted by eradown
Children are further divided up based on class. The children who are from well connected families are put into honors or gifted and talented classes so they can soak up the talents of their more gifted and more intelligent class mates.

The middle tier of the American public schools are full of kids from the middle class but not well connected families. Some of them are genius but their slot in advanced classes was filled by a child from a more connected family.

The next Tier is filled with children from poor families.

The lowest level of the public system is special education.

These tiers reinforce social casts and snobbery. Unless your child is guaranteed a slot in the advanced or high average classes you would be better off home schooling or private schooling.
[edit on 12-8-2008 by eradown]

I have no clue what sort of public school you are basing this seemingly ludicrous "class/tier system" on, but I wonder if you have any idea what public schools are actually like and how kids are graded/divided into classes.

The decision for which kids are put into "gifted or talented" classes has absolutely nothing to do with the socio-economic status of the parent, but rather the test results of the child. Believe it or not, on the standardized tests on public schools there is no question with "check here if your parents earn more than 100K" that will fast-lane that kid into an honors class.

The honors classes are filled with kids who are judged to be the brightest of the bright based on test scores, and these kids can and do come from any socio-economic background. What I will agree is likely though, is the parents who take a more active role in their child's education may well have a larger percentage of kids in the gifted program--and if socio-economic background has any bearing on this level of activity, then so be it.

As for a different note, while the public school system is good for many students, I agree that it is ultimately the parent's choice as to homeschooling or public schooling, at least until a child is old enough to weigh in on the decision.

Just as there are pros for the public school system, there are also pros for home schooling. The same can be said for cons for both systems. The posters who are heavily involved in either type of school-system seem to have a difficult time divorcing themselves from their system of choice and seeing both systems objectively. To imply that either system is perfect and without its share of inherent downsides is either naive or stupid. The important thing for a parent to do is to decide which choice is the best personally for his/her child and then do the most to minimize the downsides inherent to that choice.

Now for my thoughts on pros and cons of homeschooling.

Pros:
Ability to personalize lessons for a child's personality and the method of teaching which works best for each individual child.
Ability to speed up/slow down lessons based each child rather than the class as a whole.
Ability to turn real-life experiences into a lesson...eg...taking your child outside to watch the ISS pass overhead at 10 pm as part of "Science class" that day.
Ability to incorporate varied teaching tools and methods into lessons more easily--eg--weekly field trips, hands on experiments, etc.

Cons:
Limited exposure to different teaching methods and styles. (Sometimes it's a great surprise to find a new teacher teaches a different way and that you really enjoy it).
Limited interaction with children other than family members except often times in controlled environments.
Less exposure to classmates--and often times kids learn as much if not more during classes from other kids than they do the teachers. (fellow students often find novel ways to help their classmates learn a difficult concept).
Less exposure to real-life scenarios which lead to a well-rounded person who can deal with life successfully.

Originally posted by asmeone2

What is it that needs to be regulated?

NOthing more than what is already in place, that was just an idea to make the regulators the ones that are actually doing the homeschooling.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

Originally posted by xtradimensions[/i


The decision for which kids are put into "gifted or talented" classes has absolutely nothing to do with the socio-economic status of the parent, but rather the test results of the child. Believe it or not, on the standardized tests on public schools there is no question with "check here if your parents earn more than 100K" that will fast-lane that kid into an honors class.

This is a straw man argument you are making. I never posted that schools asked students how their much parents make. They already know this. You are involved in public schools. A Rich kid once told me up front that if anyone ever hurt him in a public school his daddy would contact the school board and they would put a stop to his suffering. When you have connections ,you are treated much better in both prison and public schools. I am sorry you find that truth painful. I will admitt I probably would not want to cross powerful people unless they were really hurting me either.

Originally posted by xtradimensions
[The honors classes are filled with kids who are judged to be the brightest of the bright based on test scores, and these kids can and do come from any socio-economic background. What I will agree is likely though, is the parents who take a more active role in their child's education may well have a larger percentage of kids in the gifted program--and if socio-economic background has any bearing on this level of activity, then so be it.

Times like this I am so happy that other disciplines are examining the public school situation. Some economomists studying public schools found a correlation between price of home and class rank. The kids whose familes owned more expensive houses had better class standing than those who had less expensive houses. Sorry public are not egalitarian institutions.

Originally posted by xtradimensions

As for a different note, while the public school system is good for many students, I agree that it is ultimately the parent's choice as to homeschooling or public schooling, at least until a child is old enough to weigh in on the decision.

Then you should be happy to give public school students who hate the public schools they attend vouchers so they can attend the private schools of their choice.