Originally posted by eradown

Actually there are places in this country were people send their kids to communtiy college and then they can study at home through online classes. Not many home schoolers choose this option. There are colleges that cater specifically to homeschoolers.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by eradown]

Hmm. Interesting. Do they have special jobs in the workforce to cater to home-schoolers too, for when their boss is a jerk? Oh, wait..

Look, you have to get into the real world at some point. And as for finding a college that doesn't have a "drug problem," good luck. Even Oral Roberts Bible College has some party animals. It's college.

Edit: I kind of sound like a jerk here, but I mean it in the nicest possible way.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by MahNameABorat]

I have seen a lot of GOOD loving parents make very bad mistakes in over micromanaging their children. It was done 100% out of love and caring. But, it was one of those things that you want to shake the parent and say "Wake up! Your kid is a great kid! Let them make their mistakes and let them both succeed and fail without you calling them ever 5min". That child ended up getting married at 21 to get out from her parents thumb. It was the only way she could get them to stop. As a whole, the mom was a *super* mom. She just took it too far. Not as far as the homeshool thing though.

I have no doubt that the homeschooling parents on this thread love their kids and do what they think is 100% best for them. I think they deserve the right to choose to homeschool.

I still do not think it is the best choice for the majority of kids. I might yank a kid out of school and homeschool them if their choices and life were taking such a bad turn, I needed to. I hope to teach my children well enough that they are able to make good decisions in the face of having bad ones posed to them.

As far as drugs and college, alcohol is a much larger problem. I don't think I ever saw drugs, but, there sure was a heck of a lot of drinking. I did my share of it but, I still graduated in 4 years and had my dad not died, I would have gone on to grad school. (though, it would have not done anymore for me except let me stay out of real life a while longer!)

There are drugs out there as 40 year old adults in a corporate world. The number of people I find who smoke pot regularly is amazing(not myself, I am not a fan of it) Very successful people that would shock you.

Life is full of choices no matter where you are. Learning to make GOOD choices in the face of bad ones, is easier to learn when young, when your parents are there to help.

Again, I come from a perspective of GOOD public schools in upscale areas. So, that is where my perspective comes from. Both from my growing up and where I live now. And yes, there was drugs in school when I grew up and I was able to make GOOD decisions not to do them. I made good decisions not to drink and drive and made decisions not to get in cars with drunk kids. Though, I was given that ability by my parents being there for me

It all comes down to parenting in the end

Originally posted by MahNameABorat
Can you be more daft? School isn't exactly akin to drinking alcohol. In any event, they don't want to drink/whatever anyway. They just want to be normal, and socialize with other kids their age.

Way to swallow the camel while straining out the gnat! Thank you for proving my point. Do they even teach elementary logic in school any more?
My point still stands. HOW DOES A CHILD DETERMINE WHAT IS IN IT'S BEST INTERESTS? Does it have the experience to know what is in it's best interests? Does it have knowledge of how the real world works? And BTW, why did you skip all my OTHER examples about things kids would "like"?

...Now, now, I know what you're thinking. "Homeschool kids can still socialize!" What you don't realize is, often times it is an empty promise. Sure, they socialize if socialization entails playing World of Warcraft for 16 hours a day because their parents don't want them to attend school with other kids. Unless they want to talk to random strangers on the street. But, if you're so protective of your kids that you homeschool them, chances are you won't like them doing that.

Ok, besides "your friends", can you show me any studies, news reports, anything that parents are allowing 16 hours of World of Warcraft as education? Anything that we can click on? No? Hmmm... then it must be hyperbole, exaggeration, or outright lying on your part.

One last question there buddy....

If they were so bad at "socializing" then how did you and them end up "friends" in the first place? LOL If you can't understand why I find that so funny, then you really are clueless.

Here's the sum total of what "socialization" skills you will learn in school. (note: this doesn't necessarily apply to extra-curricular activities).

Sit down, shut up, you have to listen to me because I am in authority

Once again people, LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE.

TPTB do NOT want you home schooled, your children home schooled, or anyone else home schooled. Each time a child is home schooled, it exposes the big lie of being dependent on Daddy Government. And we can't have that. For TPTB, it's about LOSS OF CONTROL.

Look at the examples on here. Are we supposed to ACTUALLY BELIEVE that two people with PHDs CANNOT educate their children properly?

[edit on 12-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

The major con I've always noticed of Homeschooling is kids growing up anti-social because they do not interact as often with other kids as children going to regular schools.

#1 - One does not fit all
#2 - Anything can be done Right - Wrong - or any where in-between.
#3 - "Public" usually means/fits middle of the road or lower qualifiers.
#4 - Aren't home schoolers required to pass standard state tests?

Some people say schools are worse today because they don't teach. When I was in grade school back in the 50s - it was the same. Schools did not "teach". Everything was read - memorize - take a test.

If you are of a "student" mindset - - public school is probably fine.

If you are of a thinker/philosopher mindset - public school is detrimental.

Public school does not want you to think. Intelligent thinker/philosopher's disrupt the curriculum and require extra attention. If you are lucky - you might get a teacher that cares. But - of course - that will only be for that one year - and her/his limited time away from middle of the road.

I hated school. I wanted to think. I wanted to reason. I wanted to know why.

I was the problem - because I didn't fit "middle of the road". Putting a child like me in public school - - makes them stupid. Makes them give up and not care.

I only wish there had been other choices when I was in school.

Any home school teachers out there want to adopt me?

Originally posted by Tomis_Nexis
The major con I've always noticed of Homeschooling is kids growing up anti-social because they do not interact as often with other kids as children going to regular schools.

You know - this can also apply to - everyone needs to have their own space.

In our modern time - many have their own room - their own "space". Children do not interact with family - and tend to spend more time alone in their rooms. Their socializing is via internet or texting. Some don't even bother with vocal communication anymore.

There are way too many local activities kids can belong to outside of school. Many homeschooler's create their own groups. I don't support that anti-social is part of home schooling.

In my opinion - - anti social is parents who over protect their children. This can happen in public school as well. Most people understand the term "the minister's kid".

Homeschooling does not mean you lock your kids up for their lives and never let them out of the house. Where does this idea come from? Homeschooled children spend a part of their day working on their education, just like children in public school (or wait, is it that public schools are for socializing? I get confused). And then...we let them play with friends, go to the skate park, go to dances, have jobs, etc.

My children are not lonely. Most of their friends are publicly schooled. We have kids here constantly. My kids go to other people's houses. They go to movies and dances. My daughter is dating, God help me. They do the same things they would have done (and did) if they left the house for school. The only difference is they happen to stay here to do that schoolwork.

Every year, we sit down with our 3 teenagers and discuss if they want to continue to homeschool. They have the option to go to public school. Every year they choose homeschooling. All three attended public school for years, so they can make the comparisons.

All three have jobs that they have been promoted at. These are jobs dealing with the public. My daughter's boss loves to hire homeschoolers because she says they are the most reliable and are good at dealing with situations that come up. Her words, not mine.

My kids juggle school, work, home, and social lives. Just like you do in adult life.

Originally posted by MahNameABorat
Hmm. Interesting. Do they have special jobs in the workforce to cater to home-schoolers too, for when their boss is a jerk? Oh, wait..
Look, you have to get into the real world at some point.

Yes, I suppose there are jobs that "cater" to homeschoolers as a population, in the sense that the homeschooled population tends to be higher quality and have higher performance across the board. Because many companies and organizations want the best quality employees who know how to work independently, do not half-as* their work, who respect the chain of command, and produce to their highest potential. They tend to have honed critical thinking skills and a work ethic.

I suppose there is one job area where this would not apply: Public education (teachers, administration, and teachers union staff). I believe this is a good trade off.

This means that they look for the quality of education and the quality of the individual. I believe that you are more likely to find this in a stack of resumes of random homeschoolers or random private schoolers than you would random public schoolers. Why? Because of my experience with homeschoolers who have been successful in life, and studies, but also "common sense" because the parents have been highly involved in the educational process.

Does that mean that individual homeschoolers won't let loose or have difficulty adjusting to college life, that they will definately avoid illegal actions? Hardly.

Is homeschooling a litmus test for a high quality individual? Hardly.

Equally, these kinds of arguments could apply to any individual, regardless of educational style. But when populations are studied, trends become evident, and they demonstrate that homeschooled population across the board score higher metrics against the other populations.

We are not taking this sitting down any longer. Our Homeschool communities "mantra"?

Every Day is Saturday!

That's correct. My kids learn in three hours in the morning what PScooled kids do in an entire day. What do they do next?

Chores
Swim in the pool
Have lunch
Art of Science project

After that? - Run and play in the backyard. For most of the rest of the day.

My Kids are tanned from hours running in imaginative physical play. Not a tanning bed because they're pasty. Healthy and strong from play, not 40 minutes of "PE" twice a week.

As for socialization? Bullies? Personalization? Let them deal with those issues as adults because they are adult situations. A 3rd grader doesn't know how to handle a bully. There is only pain. "Peer pressure?" Let a young adult with grown virtues handle that, not an 8yr old girl not understanding why mommy won't let her wear that when all the other girls do. Adult situations are forced upon immature minds in PSchools. Let them face adult issues when they are adults.

Anyone living in Germany watching this thread?

I would love to hear from someone living in Germany about the homeschooling situation there right now. How does the general public feel?

As for socialization? Bullies? Personalization? Let them deal with those issues as adults because they are adult situations. A 3rd grader doesn't know how to handle a bully. There is only pain. "Peer pressure?" Let a young adult with grown virtues handle that, not an 8yr old girl not understanding why mommy won't let her wear that when all the other girls do. Adult situations are forced upon immature minds in PSchools. Let them face adult issues when they are adults.

I find it interesting that you think that young children don't have the stamina to react to "Adult situations" like bullying and peer pressure, but they can still create them?

I did my share of it but, I still graduated in 4 years and had my dad not died, I would have gone on to grad school. (though, it would have not done anymore for me except let me stay out of real life a while longer!)

errm, don't want to nit pick, but weren't you earlier saying that school was the real world/life? Can you make up your mind please as it's a tad confusing at times.

Originally posted by asmeone2

I find it interesting that you think that young children don't have the stamina to react to "Adult situations" like bullying and peer pressure, but they can still create them?

Do you have Children?

Chaos, anarchy and misbehavior is the default. It takes no training.

Resisting and properly responding requires training, when a mind is ready to understand that training. Children learn social skills from adults, not from other children.

There is no socialization in public schools. The teacher by way of a seating chart gets to pick who the students will be allowed to associate with. If the children sitting next to each other become too friendly, they are separated. The children are punished if they talk to each other. This results in very few opportunities to make freinds in our public schools.

Children are further divided up based on class. The children who are from well connected families are put into honors or gifted and talented classes so they can soak up the talents of their more gifted and more intelligent class mates.

The middle tier of the American public schools are full of kids from the middle class but not well connected families. Some of them are genius but their slot in advanced classes was filled by a child from a more connected family.

The next Tier is filled with children from poor families. They may be labeled as regular but they recieve teachers who are not very good. These teachers either can not maintain order in the class or they are just not sane. These less than stellar teachers have a negative impact on the intellectual and emotional development of their students.

The lowest level of the public system is special education. These classes were designed to educate special needs children ,but they have become a dumping ground for kids with severe behavioral problems. One student may be a high functioning borderline genius with Autism another in the same class may be in diapers and not verbal. The result of this mix is pure chaos. Very little teaching or learning takes place in those classes.

These tiers reinforce social casts and snobbery. Unless your child is guaranteed a slot in the advanced or high average classes you would be better off home schooling or private schooling.



[edit on 12-8-2008 by eradown]

Do you have Children?

Chaos, anarchy and misbehavior is the default. It takes no training.

Resisting and properly responding requires training, when a mind is ready to understand that training. Children learn social skills from adults, not from other children.

I do have children. Respectfully, I think what you said is hockey.

Children do not start to misbehave because it's wired into them, but because they either don't know the rules yet or do not know how to contain their emotions.

In groups children don't automatically fall into chaos. They form groups. Sometimes there is a ringleader, sometimes a bully.

Originally posted by eradown

These tiers reinforce social casts and snobbery. Unless your child is guaranteed a slot in the advanced or high average classes you would be better off home schooling or private schooling.

With myself - kids - and grand kids.

I have never experienced the tier social system you just described.

Public schools have districts. The majority of kids in districts tend to be on similar social levels. Of course there are exceptions.

Studies do however prove - - that cute blond girls get the most attention by teachers - whether teacher is male or female.

I did make sure my children were always dressed properly - even if I had to shop at Goodwill.

This is continued with the grandchildren. As first visual impression is important.

but you also have to consider the childs social needs or problems (ive encountered both mostly prob. though)

Its an interesting thing when I look back and think about the people that I've known that have been home-schooled. Some background, two were in the same homeschooling group or union, organization, etc whatever you want to call it, the rest were from other states or areas. theres been about 8 total I've known and some through the others I knew.

Some generalities I've seen:
Every single one of them had attachment problems. Either detaching from their parents, their parents detaching from them, would seriously latch onto anyone that paid attention to them or just could make no friends at all.

They were always, without fail horridly weak in some key area of life, be it math, english, science or what not.

Thought that being home-schooled was a reason for not having at least a GED.

Only one of them had a job that didn't require your name to be on your shirt.

The two that turned out to be borderline religious lunatics were the only ones with a concept of as schedule, routine or responsibility.

All but one of them were abused as a child.

They all had two or more really out there personality quirks.

Now, on the good side, many of them had a bit more breadth in their knowledge of any of the basics that interested them.

At least half of them were more hands on type people as well as learners

They were all stupidly innocent in a way that was almost admirable, but mostly useless for some of the things I dealt with.

They all could make a pretty mean hamburger.