The pros and cons of Homeschooling

Public schools would be far superior to home schooling if we first destryed them, got rid of 90% of the teachers and re-educated most of the rest, tore up the curriculums and tests and started from scratch with an intent to actually encourage our children to become well rounded, balanced, free thinking and acting, loving and caring individuals.

The technology for learning is light years ahead of the school system, all that's needed is an actual desire to empower rather than to enslave.

Yes, I'm an idealist

[edit on 11-8-2008 by RogerT]

Before we go on I would kindly like to remind everyone that this thread is NOT about bashing public schools or discussing the communist conspiracy to brainwash the children. It is a specific discussion of the merits and problems of homeschooling. Thank you!

reply to post by RogerT


Unless you are a rich elitist, and thus part of our whole problem, generating income and working are one in the same.

There might be some people few and far between who have a great idea snd strike it rich, but that is the rare exception. Most of them worked "slave" jobs before their goldmine, too.

College doesn't make people slaves. People make people slaves, because they choose not to improve their situations.

Oh, I thought one of the major pros of home schooling was avoinding the communist conspiracy to brainwash children!

Man, did you learn that one at school? there you go, another pro for homeschooling

Con of home schooling: having a teacher who says things like: 'communist conspiracy to brainwash children'.

rofl



[edit on 11-8-2008 by RogerT]

Sometimes parents try it out to see if it will benefit their children at all and some parents let the children decide if they want to do it and for how long, and I think that is the best way to do it, with the best intentions.

I will agree with you here, because the "damaged" homeschool cases that I know seem to be the ones where the parent continued to homeschool even though it wasn't working, either because they wanted to keep them away from something in public schools or because they didn't want to admit that what they had decided to do wasn't the best.

Originally posted by RogerT
Oh, I thought one of the major pros of home schooling was avoinding the communist conspiracy to brainwash children!

Man, did you learn that one at school? there you go, another pro for homeschooling

Con of home schooling: having a teacher who says things like: 'communist conspiracy to brainwash children'.

rofl



[edit on 11-8-2008 by RogerT]

Just want to keep it one topic, is all.

Obviously the public schools need reform too, but that's a whole other deal and I want to keep it out of this thread mainly because it's a matter of opinion as to what exactly is wrong with them.

reply to post by asmeone2


Well yes, most of us have to work slave jobs whilst we get our sht together and start generating an income.

Your post is clearly the product of a classical education, mixed with some jealousy for those who have found the courage to find their own financial solutions to trained poverty.

JOB is just over broke. It insults our dignity as free and creative human beings to accept this as reality. However, you got to reject the schooling if you want to move forward.

Peace bro'

because it's a matter of opinion as to what exactly is wrong with them.

Sorry if I'm going off your topic a bit. This is the first education thread I posted in, so it's a bit like holding back the flood waters.

Personally, I can't think of anything which is right with governmental education - there's my opinion for ya in case I hadn't yet made it clear.

Really, I get what you are saying regarding on/off topic, but debating pros and cons of home schooling is an invite to compare with alternative schooling systems, ie. the public system - isn't it?

I understand the argument, but I really don't agree. Homeschooling does not in any way shape-or-form mean that the schooling is happening *at home*...but it is really based on a stereotype that homeschool kids sit in a lonely room at a school desk like they do in a public school. This is rarely the case in my experience.

Honestly I think we may have some kind of a geographic, or cultural, difference here, because that was more the case of the homeschoolers I would encounter. That is probably because it is pretty rural here. Some had enrichment classes, but they usually totaled one or two hours a week. Maybe the laws differ where you are, but the kids can't get a paying job for an aprenticeship until they are 16 or older, either.

I suppose that I cannot see how parents can be required to have any sort of credentials (no matter what you call it, background, education, preparation, or otherwise) without having governmental control. And it is this control that the departments of education in various states and the teachers unions have attempted to assert in the past. Otherwise it will just be an honor system, no? Please clarify how this can happen without the government controlling the system.

I think that the parents should have to be able to prove proficiency in whatever subject they are going to teach to the kids.

For example, before they teach algebra, they have to prove that they can do algebra.

(However, I would only see this restriction put in place if the parents could then have the option of enrolling the child in selective public classes, or if they could solicite another homeschooling teacher to do this part of the teaching. )

It isn't controlling in the sense that the government dictates what is being taught in the lesson plans. It's like a civil service exam.

If that is too much government intrusion, then our opinions will just have to differ here.

Oh, I am sure that it sounds that way, sry. Remember that I have sent all my kids to public schools too, and I did so because of the financial and time burdens that homeschooling imposed. So, perhaps I should have stated this more softly.

I can also identify a lot of criticism that I have personally experienced has come from parents who do put their careers above their kids...

No offence taken, I didn't remember reading that you had sent them to public schools so I jumped to a little bit of a conclusion there.

What your wife is experiencing is probably more of a symptom of parents who are misguided into thinking that they have to buy their children's love, instead of anything to do with where they go to school

Yes, this is true. But if we look at percentages, homeschool children are more often better adjusted, because the public system has the festering sore of inner-city schools, etc.

But even in a more fair comparison, what does fine mean? Fine to work as an insurance agent, or in a welfare office? Public schools, in my experience, do not hone critical thinking skills necessary for science and technology work -- these are either developed in college, or independently by the child as they engage in outside projects.

Fine depends a lot on the situation, as you pointed out; I'm just as curious how you define well-adjested? I'm not sure I can answer the question until I know what I'm comparing it against.

It's a bit foolish to think that a kid is going to have the needs to immediately fit into the "real" world, no matter where he goes to school. I think you said it best yourself: these are either developed in college, or independently by the child as they engage in outside projects.

But, perhaps a more pertinent example that many would understand... the "Civil War" and the politics of slavery. There are two sides to this issue, and in the North, the "War of Northern Aggression" almost never gets a hearing. This was a complex issue of economics and states rights vs. centralization, and the Lincoln administration overstepped its bounds by denying the southern states from seceding from the Union. But in all my years in public schools, this was never discussed. Why?

Because the system is biased, and the students are a captive audience.

I am in the South, that sure as heck got a hearing here, though not as thorough as the mainline view.

If I want to teach my child algebra, I simply have to find some good teaching material and bunk up on it 10 minutes beforehand, that's what a lot of teachers do anyway.

But why on earth should I be required to teach my child algebra anyway?

Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Well yes, most of us have to work slave jobs whilst we get our sht together and start generating an income.

Your post is clearly the product of a classical education, mixed with some jealousy for those who have found the courage to find their own financial solutions to trained poverty.

JOB is just over broke. It insults our dignity as free and creative human beings to accept this as reality. However, you got to reject the schooling if you want to move forward.

Peace bro'

Actually I was homeschooled for a long time myself, then put into public school. So I wasn't completely clasically educated.

I am curious what you do for a living?

At some point in their life, everyone has to put in their time as "just over broke." This isn't a catch-all so much as it is an investment period.

But really, I think the best thing to teach them is to be happy of who an what they are despite what they have and where they work, instead of setting them off (what appears to be, in the case of your posts) an arbitrary goal that they may or may not actually be able to acheive.

No you totally lost me with the sentence containing the word arbitrary.

Didn't I post that I think kids should be having fun with other kids at school rather than learning that junk they try to 'teach' them.
what other goal do you think I am suggesting kids have?

Really, I get what you are saying regarding on/off topic, but debating pros and cons of home schooling is an invite to compare with alternative schooling systems, ie. the public system - isn't it?

That's a debate of home vs. public, which I want to avoid, because in this case I think it'll detract from the points that center around the debate of home vs. home.

We could start an other thread on that if you want, it's a worthwile topic in itself.

Originally posted by RogerT
No you totally lost me with the sentence containing the word arbitrary.

Didn't I post that I think kids should be having fun with other kids at school rather than learning that junk they try to 'teach' them.
what other goal do you think I am suggesting kids have?

Hope it didn't come of as a personal affront.
Your general message seemed to be teach them to think outside the system; I was trying to understand how, specifically, you would do that, without compromising their ability to function in the world that we actually live in.

OK, now you really lost me - home vs home.

Prolly I'm being a bit obtuse, sorry.

Do you mean a discussion about different styles of home-schooling?

Do you mean a discussion about different styles of home-schooling?

Yep, that's what I mean, that and a discussion of whether some of those different methods work better than others, and how much leverage the state should have in regulating it.

reply to post by asmeone2


Hey we are both posting simultaneously but I'm one post behind you, so have included your post link in this one.

Yes, I do recommend for everyone to think outside the system, as the system is at best broken and at worst demonic and corrupt.

how to teach kids to do that and still have them function in society, simple, just be the teaching.

trying to conform to a corrupt system is heartbreaking for a child, IMO. If they are made aware that they simply have to learn the rules to the game, and also the cheats, then it is far less traumatic for them and they can retain much of their 'innocence', perception and dare I say it, purity.

sorry, off topic again, but you did ask

Originally posted by asmeone2
Before we go on I would kindly like to remind everyone that this thread is NOT about bashing public schools or discussing the communist conspiracy to brainwash the children.

It is a specific discussion of the merits and problems of homeschooling. Thank you!

It is those two reasons that many CHOSE to home school..among others.
I'm not going to give out specific info here about my family, but I home school my children and have for almost 8 years. I follow a curriculum posted online by the Board of Education where I live. I have many reasons for the choice I made. Yes, my children ARE socialized, and have jobs as well. ( The teens).
My oldest was home schooled for 4 years before entering high school in the system. He graduated in three years instead of four, with honors. He works full time now, saving up to start his own business, as he wants to do most of it himself without taking out a loan. Iam VERY proud of him. He is proud of himself. Neither of us would change a thing.

Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Hey we are both posting simultaneously but I'm one post behind you, so have included your post link in this one.

Yes, I do recommend for everyone to think outside the system, as the system is at best broken and at worst demonic and corrupt.

how to teach kids to do that and still have them function in society, simple, just be the teaching.

trying to conform to a corrupt system is heartbreaking for a child, IMO. If they are made aware that they simply have to learn the rules to the game, and also the cheats, then it is far less traumatic for them and they can retain much of their 'innocence', perception and dare I say it, purity.

sorry, off topic again, but you did ask

Not so off topic, I wanted to hear what your veiw of homeschool functioning at its peak is.

If I may ask, What subjects do you teach the kids? When you say be the teaching are you talking about taking them to work with you, teching them housework, or something different? Are there things that you do NOT teach them because you think they are part of the system? Do you decide what they learn, or do you follow their desires? Is there a schedule?

Most of the "cons" of homeschooling that people come up with have no basis in fact. And studies have shown that the education of the parents or the amount of regulation from the state makes no difference in the academic achievement of the child. Since more regulation doesn't seem to be beneficial, it is a bit silly to make it harder for parents to educate their children. Imagine what could be achieved if the same amount of energy was given in support of homeschooling that is given to question and doubt homeschooling.

On education:

In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. A significant finding when analyzing the data for 8th graders was the evidence that homeschoolers who are homeschooled two or more years score substantially higher than students who have been homeschooled one year or less. The new homeschoolers were scoring on the average in the 59th percentile compared to students homeschooled the last two or more years who scored between 86th and 92nd percentile.

From here

Over 74% of home-educated adults ages 18–24 have taken college-level courses, compared to 46% of the general United States population

From Beyond Graduation


Homeschool Students Excel in College



Homeschooling Research

Much more from all the links above.




Socialization:

Smedley had this information processed using the statistical program for the social sciences and the results demonstrated that the home-schooled children were better socialized and more mature than the children in the public school. The home-schooled children scored in the 84th percentile while the matched sample of public school children only scored in the 27th percentile.

In addition, several studies have been done to measure homeschoolers' "self-concept," which is the key objective indicator for establishing a child's self-esteem. A child's degree of self-esteem is one of the best measurements of his ability to successfully interact on a social level. One such study was conducted by John Wesley Taylor, using the Piers-Harris Children's Self-Concept Scale to evaluate 224 home-schooled children. They study found that 50 percent of the children scored above the 90th percentile, and only 10.3 percent scored below the national average.

In 2004, Dr. Susan McDowell wrote “But What About Socialization? Answering the Perpetual Home Schooling Question: A Review of the Literature” following a challenge to document the common idea that homeschoolers are not socialized in comparison to those students in public schools. McDowell, whose PhD from Vanderbilt University is in educational leadership, claims: “It’s a non-issue today. All the research shows children are doing well.”

In the public school system, children are socialized horizontally, and temporarily, into conformity with their immediate peers. Home educators seek to socialize their children vertically, toward responsibility, service, and adulthood, with an eye on eternity

From here

(emphasis above is mine)


Race:

There was no significant difference between minority and white homeschooled students. For example, in grades K-12, both white and minority students scored, on the average, in the 87th percentile. In math, whites scored in the 82nd percentile while minorities scored in the 77th percentile. In the public schools, however, there is a sharp contrast. White public school eighth grade students, nationally scored the 58th percentile in math and the 57th percentile in reading. Black eighth grade students, on the other hand, scored on the average at the 24th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. Hispanics scored at the 29th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading.

Wealth:

the average cost per homeschool student is $546 while the average cost per public school student is $5,325. Yet the homeschool children in this study averaged in 85th percentile while the public school students averaged in the 50th percentile on nationally standardized achievement tests

found that eighth grade students whose parents spend $199 or less on their home education score, on the average, in the 80th percentile. Eighth grade students whose parents spend $400 to $599 on their home education also score on the average, in the 80th percentile

Parent Education:

found no significant statistical differences in academic achievement between those students taught by parents with less formal education and those students taught by parents with higher formal education

The findings of this study do not support the idea that parents need to be trained and certified teachers to assure successful academic achievement of their children.

Regulation:

whether a state had a high degree of regulation (i.e., curriculum approval, teacher qualifications, testing, home visits) or a state had no regulation of homeschoolers, the homeschooled students in both categories of states performed the same. The students all scored on the average in the 86th percentile regardless of state regulation.

All from here