It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The pros and cons of Homeschooling

page: 1
8
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 01:57 PM
link   
I would like to post my thoughts on homeschooling in the wake of the legal action surrounding it in California, and invite everyone to chime in as well.

I support a parent's right to educate their kids as they see fit. However, they have a duty to ensure that the child is equipt with the knowedge they need to function in the world, regardless of their personal beleifs.

The PROS of homeschooling, as I see them, are that the education is tailored to the kid's needs, there is more scheduling flexibility, there may be less temptation to engage in damaging behavior, and more, I am sure, that could be supplied by the parents who are homeschooling.

However, the CONS, as I see them(I have to resort to anecdotal evidence, I don't think some of these observations are even quantifiable!), are numerous:

Whatever subject the parent is weak in will be passed on to the child. He may be a great English teacher, but bad at math. Therefore the children will be somewhat set back in this feild.

On top of that, the parent might be good at parenting, but bad at teaching academics, period. I've known a lot of parents who, at the expense of the child, were more caught up in the culture of home-schooling than the actual teaching.

Schooling prepars the child for the schedules needed in the real-world. You can call this a bad thing if you want, but fact is, if you're going to be able to do well in our world, you have to know how to get to school/work on time, get (home)work done on time, manage extracurricular activities and studies, ect. Homeschooling sometimes shrifts the kids out of this part of the education; many of the homeschooled kids I knew had a hard wake-up call when they entered college or high school because of this.

Some parents use homeschooling as an unhealthy form of sheilding or indoctrination (see my thread about that here. Parents should have the right to raise kids as they see fit, religiously or not, but that should NOT compromise the kid's ability to function in the real world. For example, I am talking about the Christians on the extreme side of the scale who teach their kids that they should distrust all science because it gave us evolution, abortion, whatever. On the flip side might be someone who homeschools because they don't want their kids to say the Pledge of Allegence and teaches the kid to see a religious conspiracy in every aspect of wha they learn.

And although this may be the most debated aspect, I think that children absolutely need *something* outside of homeschooling to learn how to socially function. It isn't just about making friends, it's much more about learning to solve problems without MOm or Dad mediating, observing how different people have different strengths and weaknesses, watching trends come and go, being exposed to different opinions. I have known WAY to many homeschoolers who were *great* at memorizing facts, but absolutely useless when it came to social interactions.


So in general I support homeschooling. I also think that it should be regulated, for the reasons I listed above.

I think the children should be held to the same examination standards of public schools. (In my opinion, ideas like Unschooling represent parental laziness hidden under a cute label and don't serve the child's educational needs at all.)

I think the parents should have to submit a lesson plan, as is already done in some states.

I think the parents' knowledge should be tested before they begin to teach. So should the people who teach at "Enrichment Classes." I would support them having to have teacher's certificates before beginning their homeschooling, though some would think this is too much state intrusion.

I think homeschooling parents should be able to have the option of enrolling their student in selective public school classes, such as a math, science, art school.


I' d love for others to post and add in their opinion of Homeschooling, especially if they have firsthand experience! (However, please don't look at my arguments and say something like "Public school isn't a very good place either, therefore those ideas won't work!" This thread isn't about public school!
)



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 02:51 PM
link   
The parent needs to be able to teach the child to read period. Checkout Dr Robinson's Homeschooling at
www.robinsoncurriculum.com...
In my area there is a homeschoolers network so support is available. Testing the child's level of learning is ALL that is necessary. I have a college degree and have learned a heck of alot from a guy with a 6th grade education. If you can read you can teach yourself just about anything. ( I self taught 2 years of calculus)



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:06 PM
link   
I think to me the Pros would be freedom of choice.
The Cons would be it will be much more challenging.
That being said, who's responsibility is it to educate our children?
I personally feel that to put your own freedom and duty below some blanket
"best-for-the-children" concept put forward by the state is insane.
I'll take that responsibility.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:08 PM
link   
Great post. I'd like to reply to it...

We homeschool both of our children, and have done so for almost five years now. My children both attended public school for a few years, then we pulled them out. We felt that the environment of the public school system was not adequately meeting the needs of our children. My son learned about things in the third grade that should not be discussed until much later in their life. There also is a pretty bad drug problem in the middle schools in our area. In addition, I felt it was not a good environment for our children in a spiritual sense as well.

Let me address some of the cons you see...

My wife does the majority of the teaching. She is an absolute genius in math and science. I am the "expert" in English and history. As a result, our kids are able to get a pretty well-rounded education.

We require our children to be on a schedule for their classes. It is posted at their desks, and they are expected to follow it accordingly. They enjoy being on a pretty tight schedule, as it allows them to get their work done in an efficient manner, as opposed to sitting around waiting for other students to finish their work, stand in line for the bathroom, etc. They're never bored, so this keeps them out of trouble.

The social aspect..my kids are both competitive swimmers, so they spend time with other kids at practice and swim meets. This is also an additional "real-world" schedule that they have to keep. My kids are also students at a co-op with over 200 other homeschoolers. They take their elective classes there. This gives them a chance to also spend time with people outside of the immediate family.

My wife has detailed lesson plans for each semester. There are programs that keep track of grades, work completed, etc. It's a great tool for being organized. Our kids are also tested every year, which is even more than is required for public school children. We get test scores back every year and see what aspects of education we need to work on with our children.

Overall, homeschooling is a great thing in my opinion. It also seems like more and more folks are looking into it as an option.

Let me know if you'd like to discuss more..it's a subject I enjoy talking about.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by human8
I think to me the Pros would be freedom of choice.
The Cons would be it will be much more challenging.
That being said, who's responsibility is it to educate our children?
I personally feel that to put your own freedom and duty below some blanket
"best-for-the-children" concept put forward by the state is insane.
I'll take that responsibility.


Honestly I don't see that requiring the parents to be educated and prove that they are before they teach their own children academics.

I'm not talking about holding them to an unobtainable standard here, just that they can prove proficiency in the subjects they teach. We expect teachers at public or private schools to be educated, so I don't think it's unreasonable to hold homeschool teachers to a standard too.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:39 PM
link   
reply to post by MrBigDog1974
 


Thanks for your reply, I do have some questions to ask you:

1. Can you clarify what you meant when you said you didn't like the school environment? Are you talking about the general education setup or something more specific? Was it religiously motivated?

2. How much to you consider what subjects your children like or excell at when you do your lesson plans? Do you focus especially at the subjects they lag behind on to compensate, or do you concentrate more on what they like in order to further that intrest?

3. How do you feel about homeschoolers who don't keep a schedule? Do you think this is laziness or merely another approach?



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:48 PM
link   
reply to post by asmeone2
 

Wow... 4000 characters. I better keep it precise.

Homeschooling is not better or worse than any other schooling. A child's education is limited mainly by the quality of teaching, opportunities afforded the child by his environment, and parental involvement.

With the exception of the few home-schoolers who actually are lazy (or who are trying to salvage a problem child, likely nurtured by an environment where the parents weren't as involved as they should be), all of these factors are superior in home-school environments.

The idea that all home-schoolers are of the "circle-the-wagons" mentality is bogus. Most want to prevent the government-subsidized indoctrination camps called the public schools from corrupting their children. And in the public-eye, home-schooled children must be sitting in a lonely room at a school-desk, writing on paper and biding their time until they can hear the bell ring and go play. Because, after all, isn't this what schooling is?

Real life does not follow school-schedules, nor fit into school-cliques, nor does high school football get you much except something to talk about while you sit alone in a bar somewhere.

The facts remain: home-schooling parents still pay property taxes for public schools, yet for some reason still choose to take the immense time and energy to teach their own kids. They often network with other home-schoolers for teaching advanced topics or sharing knowledge/techniques. They pay money for their own curriculum choices, and take their kids on a great number of field trips, actual real-life experiences (not those that mimic an artificial environment like the public schools), get their kids involved with real paying jobs and vocational programs, and expose them to critical thinking skills very young. These children, by-and-large outperform, outtest, and outthink public school children when the percentages are analyzed.

As such, homeschool parents are dealing with prejudice and ingrained bs expectations that are largely due to conservative values and styles. As such, governmental intervention is not desired, nor welcome, nor justified. If these same standards were applied to public schools, then we would see a revolution in education. But alas, the aim is creating good little workers for a Socialist ideal, and not very interested in the actual improvement of children beyond that.

I think ultimately, homeschools will become a real threat to the public education system, and is a civil rights issue.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:49 PM
link   
reply to post by MrBigDog1974
 


Kudos to you and your wife. Sounds like you have it all figured out. I don't have children yet but when I do I plan to homeschool them so they actually get an education rather than wasting 12 years of their life.

When I was in school I was always the smartest kid in every class. I'm not being haughty, just explaining my situation. I finished the whole day's work with hours to spare in the school day. I remember once in 7th grade there appeared on a geography test the question "What is the imaginary line around the center of the earth called?"

And it was this way until I was old enough to start taking AP classes in high school. This is not education. It is a waste of some of the best years of my life. I won't squander my childrens' youth in such a manner.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:57 PM
link   
reply to post by sc2099
 


One of the big things I noticed in public schools was that instead of progressively deepening the understanding of one subject, they would instead rotate a few subects out every three or four years.

There was biology, chemestry, and physicys in middle school, and again in high school.

There was also a rotation of World History and Geography, US History, and Texas History that started in elementary school.

They wasted whole years by re-teaching the same information, except with a few more dates and names each time.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:59 PM
link   
I appreciate the kudos...I was always the smartest kid in class as well. It is a huge waste of time sitting around waiting on others. That's a plus with homeschooling - the kids move at their pace, and don't get easily bored.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 04:09 PM
link   
reply to post by asmeone2
 

I have 4 children. I have home-schooled them all, and all have attended public schools.

There are a few issues that are really core:


    1. Public schools are artificial environments that do not map well to real life
    2. Governmental control over the children is what homeschooling prevents; enforcing regulations strikes at the heart of the movement


Public schools are probably great for many kids, especially whose parents are too busy having careers to get involved. But governmental control over private families is inappropriate in most cases, and I consider it harassment that educational "experts" think they can tell me how to parent or what is best for my kids. Period. It is an issue of control.

Children are a captive audience in which liberal activist teachers shape their minds and form their perceptions to fit into a Socialistic or Communistic ideal. The schools are riddled with artificial cliques, stupid limtations and rules designed to cater to the average (i.e., dumb the kids down), and create a sense that "everyone is special" and that an average effort is enough to succeed in life. Mention "Jesus" and everyone becomes hostile. Say that the popular concept of "tolerance" is a double-standard liberal device for silencing dissent, and the children are mistreated by the "tolerant" teachers. The schools are hotbeds of drug abuse, sexual hedonism, and false hierarchies that do not model the real world.

I would say that Homeschooled children are by-and-large better adjusted for real life because they see the decadence and inequities in society for what they are, and are given a foundation and values that bulid families. It is almost completely superior.

That being said, homeschooling is a lot of work. If you are not up to the challenge, then send your kids to a school in which you can work to fix most of the problems that the school causes in your kids, and they *may* turn out ok.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 04:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by MrBigDog1974
 


Thanks for your reply, I do have some questions to ask you:

1. Can you clarify what you meant when you said you didn't like the school environment? Are you talking about the general education setup or something more specific? Was it religiously motivated?

2. How much to you consider what subjects your children like or excell at when you do your lesson plans? Do you focus especially at the subjects they lag behind on to compensate, or do you concentrate more on what they like in order to further that intrest?

3. How do you feel about homeschoolers who don't keep a schedule? Do you think this is laziness or merely another approach?



1. General school environment - there are kids there who have no interest in learning. They tend to cause trouble. I don't want my kids involved with that. I also think that I can do a better job of teaching morals to my kids than having to depend on the state to do it.

2. We make sure our kids have the basics every year - math, english, history, science. They also are taking a foreign language. (Latin this year).
They also take elective classes based on their interests. My daughter loves to paint and draw, so she is taking an art class as well as a drama class. My son is taking a guitar class, which is being helped by Rock Band and Guitar Hero


We make sure that our kids are taking classes that are challenging. My son is taking Algebra II this year - he's in the eighth grade.

A plus with homeschooling - our kids can dual enroll high school and college their last two years. With the ability to do that, they can graduate high school and go into college as a sophomore or junior.

3. I don't want to necessarily call anyone lazy, but I feel homeschoolers should have some sort of schedule. Otherwise, they're cheating their kids of success in the real world. Even in homeschooling, you need to be held responsible for your actions.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 04:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by ScienceDada
reply to post by asmeone2
 

I have 4 children. I have home-schooled them all, and all have attended public schools.

There are a few issues that are really core:


    1. Public schools are artificial environments that do not map well to real life
    2. Governmental control over the children is what homeschooling prevents; enforcing regulations strikes at the heart of the movement



I see where you are going here, but I would argue that the homeschooling setting is actually more unrealistic. Public school much more closely resembles a work environment than does homeschooling, and when your kids get out of your house, they're still going to have to work to support themselves (and probably go to college to learn to do that.) Even if they end up with a work-at-home job, they are going to have to put in the time to get to the point where that is a viable option.

Number two, I'm not arguing for government control, just something to ensure that the parents can give the children the education that they need. Refer to the OP for clarification on what exactly I mean by that.



Public schools are probably great for many kids, especially whose parents are too busy having careers to get involved. But governmental control over private families is inappropriate in most cases, and I consider it harassment that educational "experts" think they can tell me how to parent or what is best for my kids. Period. It is an issue of control.


That's a bit condescending.

Not every parent is fortunate enough to have the financial option of staying home with their children to teach them, so please don't automatically assume that a kid in public school is there because the parent is negligent.



I would say that Homeschooled children are by-and-large better adjusted for real life because they see the decadence and inequities in society for what they are, and are given a foundation and values that bulid families. It is almost completely superior.

That being said, homeschooling is a lot of work. If you are not up to the challenge, then send your kids to a school in which you can work to fix most of the problems that the school causes in your kids, and they *may* turn out ok.


There are two sides to this, you know. Not everyone who goes to home school turns out "better off." A great majority of the people who go to public school come out of it just fine, as well.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 04:23 PM
link   
I don't see why the state should have ANY influence in how my children are raised.

The 'education system' isn't designed to educate, it is clearly designed to indoctrinate and turn thinkers into obedient citizens.

Even a below average child can complete ten years of nonsense high school syllabus in a matter of months with the right coaching, but why bother, who really needs to know how many carbon atoms in a benzine ring (6) or where the limpopo flows (Indian ocean)?

One of the only redeeming aspects of school over home is learning how to beat the system and make them think you're complying whilst you inwardly rebel. Restriction and demonic control can be a great teacher of liberation.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 04:30 PM
link   

when your kids get out of your house, they're still going to have to work to support themselves (and probably go to college to learn to do that.)


We don't have to 'work' or at least not in the way you infer here. We need to find a way to generate income, but that's not the same thing as you are suggesting. The school system does little or nothing to help us in this regard, in fact the opposite, it teaches us that we are worthless individuals who need to subjugate our own creativity and individualism to some faceless and soul-less authority in order to eek out a few financial scraps for our survival.

Again, even a below average student can learn more about making money in a day from the right coach that they will learn in a decade at school. Unless of course they develop some kind of non-curricular financial activity amongst their school mates.


Not every parent is fortunate enough to have the financial option of staying home with their children to teach them,


because they went to school (and probably college) where they were trained how to be poor and dependent for life. Thank you for the beautiful illustration of the inadequacy of a school 'education' in preparing an individual for the financial realities of life.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by RogerT]



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 04:38 PM
link   
reply to post by RogerT
 


BTW, my daughter is at school.

I make sure she is focused on having fun and doesn't take the teachers, the classes or the tests too seriously.

My son is still pre-school age, I've not made up my mind yet.

Personally, I think it is probably more fun for a kid to hang out with other kids during the day, as long as they know that what they are being spoon fed at school is mostly garbage, and they are getting a real education at home.

Certainly they should know that those that can't do ... teach, and those that can't teach .... teach gym



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 04:55 PM
link   
reply to post by asmeone2
 


You raised some great points. I’d simply like to add that I was home schooled and went to public school.

I went to public school from pre-school to twelfth grade. I then did seventh through ninth grade at home. It was nice, I got to get up later in the day, spend more time learning about the things I wanted to focus on, and when I needed extra help or had to do test a woman from the home schooling agency would come to my house and help me out while collecting my work.

I went back to school for my sophomore year high school and loved being more social again, but enjoyed that I’d gotten through so many required credits at my own pace in home schooling and was almost out of my awkward phase when I returned to a more social environment.

So home schooling worked out for me. It didn’t benefit me more than public school other than my ability to do more classes and finish more credits since I moved at a fast pace in home schooling than is allowed in public school unless you take extra classes in summer school. I also wasn’t hurt any more by home schooling than the crappy school system I was in, although I do think it is important that children in home schooling are involved in other social activities with children (playing soccer for a city team, art classes, etc).

In the end I’m glad I did it, but it wasn’t a big deal one way or the other and life moved on. Just trying to point out that not all parents do home schooling to influence their children or because they think school is a bad environment. Also some need to do it because of personal things going on in the family’s life or the child’s. Sometimes parents try it out to see if it will benefit their children at all and some parents let the children decide if they want to do it and for how long, and I think that is the best way to do it, with the best intentions.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 05:04 PM
link   
I experienced both homeschooling and regular school.

I can't say which is better, as there are pros and cons for both. I think the child should have a choice. Some kids are motivated more when they have competition. Others can't concentrate with chattering kids nearby. Some parents make horrible teachers, others don't. It's really hard to say.

Depending on the parents/children/available schools in the area, it could be a good or bad thing. It depends on the circumstances and those involved. There's too much gray area here to apply the results to everyone.

If I ever have kids I would prefer to let them choose. After all, it's their education.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 05:04 PM
link   


I see where you are going here, but I would argue that the homeschooling setting is actually more unrealistic. Public school much more closely resembles a work environment than does homeschooling, and when your kids get out of your house.

I understand the argument, but I really don't agree. Homeschooling does not in any way shape-or-form mean that the schooling is happening *at home*. Many groups form basically a charter-school type of cooperative. Also, many homeschoolers have their kids involved in actual paying jobs, apprenticeships, or vocational programs. So, while many public school children are pretending to work, homeschool children are holding actual jobs(e.g., working on a farm, being a veterinary assistant, working in a burger joint, church secretary, handyman).

In contrast, what jobs take place for 50 minutes 5x per week? Not many that I know.

I understand your argument, but it is really based on a stereotype that homeschool kids sit in a lonely room at a school desk like they do in a public school. This is rarely the case in my experience.


I'm not arguing for government control... Refer to the OP for clarification on what exactly I mean by that.

I read the OP. I suppose that I cannot see how parents can be required to have any sort of credentials (no matter what you call it, background, education, preparation, or otherwise) without having governmental control. And it is this control that the departments of education in various states and the teachers unions have attempted to assert in the past. Otherwise it will just be an honor system, no? Please clarify how this can happen without the government controlling the system.



Public schools are probably great for many kids, especially whose parents are too busy having careers to get involved... It is an issue of control.

That's a bit condescending.


Oh, I am sure that it sounds that way, sry. Remember that I have sent all my kids to public schools too, and I did so because of the financial and time burdens that homeschooling imposed. So, perhaps I should have stated this more softly.

I can also identify a lot of criticism that I have personally experienced has come from parents who do put their careers above their kids. My wife runs a childcare, and this is a huge problem in that arena as well -- where parents complain about the shortcomings of a "rent-a-mom" while they are busy with their careers. I feel that these parents just transfer these expectations as their children get older.



I would say that Homeschooled children are by-and-large better adjusted for real life

There are two sides to this, you know. Not everyone who goes to home school turns out "better off." A great majority of the people who go to public school come out of it just fine, as well.

Yes, this is true. But if we look at percentages, homeschool children are more often better adjusted, because the public system has the festering sore of inner-city schools, etc.

But even in a more fair comparison, what does fine mean? Fine to work as an insurance agent, or in a welfare office? Public schools, in my experience, do not hone critical thinking skills necessary for science and technology work -- these are either developed in college, or independently by the child as they engage in outside projects.

But, perhaps a more pertinent example that many would understand... the "Civil War" and the politics of slavery. There are two sides to this issue, and in the North, the "War of Northern Aggression" almost never gets a hearing. This was a complex issue of economics and states rights vs. centralization, and the Lincoln administration overstepped its bounds by denying the southern states from seceding from the Union. But in all my years in public schools, this was never discussed. Why?

Because the system is biased, and the students are a captive audience.



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 05:16 PM
link   
reply to post by Kruel
 

I would also like to mention a few points to clarify and agree with my colleagues.

As per RogerT postings: I agree with you. The school systems are geared toward average students, and most of the material can be covered very quickly with individual attention (e.g, by a coach). The money and job issue, I couldn't have said it better.

As per Kruel post: There is a lot of value in giving the children a choice. I didn't mention this in my earlier postings, but I have let the children offer their voice and exercise their judgment. And some have opted for public schools, others for homeschool. There is a lot of value in this, as they know the pros and cons.

The bottom line is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Social environments can work very well for an extrovert, but an introvert just feels like they are being run through a grinder having to deal with cliques. I did not become social until my 4th year of college and I was a public school sufferer; public schools just made me hate people. I probably would have been more well adjusted if I had been homeschooled. On the flip-side, I have a child who wants to play football and have girls all over him. I have a feeling that he will choose the public school path. To each his own I suppose.




top topics



 
8
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join