We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

www.timesonline.co.uk

As a Russian jet bombed fields around his village, Djimali Avago, a Georgian farmer, asked me: “Why won’t America and Nato help us? If they won’t help us now, why did we help them in Iraq?”

A similar sense of betrayal coursed through the conversations of many Georgians here yesterday as their troops retreated under shellfire and the Russian Army pressed forward to take full control of South Ossetia.

(visit the link for the full news article)

IT was only a matter of time before they OUTRIGHT call on the west to support them...

Georgia supplied the 3rd most troops in Iraq/Afgan... After the US and the UK...

This is a country that was establishing GREAT relations with the US, pushing to join NATO, and a friend of the Western World...

They aren't compeltly inccocent here...

But, they are our allies, they have given the US more support then EVERY OTHER COUNTRY on earth, besides the UK... and we are leaving them out to die...

The world realy is drawing lines here... Should the US support thier KEY ally...

Or do we ignore them? And how would that make the US look? I doubt that it would make more countries pro-US...

So, if we leave our allies out to dry, who will come to our aid?

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

this whole issue is terrible. But the best way to handle this is through diplomacy. America can't supply its troops or resources to Georgia. Really touchy subject especially with the Russians.

Yeah, you "helped" Iraq real good...

reply to post by TKainZero
"The world realy is drawing lines here... Should the US support thier KEY ally...

Or do we ignore them? And how would that make the US look? I doubt that it would make more countries pro-US...

So, if we leave our allies out to dry, who will come to our aid?"

Thats a very good question. I will be interested to see how the US plays this one out... and if the Georgians get shafted by their allies. I don't see anyone coming to their aid anytime soon. I don't care who is right or wrong. People are dying and that is wrong. Period.

I feel awful...


This is not the first time the US is standing idely by as an US-Ally is attacked...

A few months back, Turkey Attacked the Kurds... The same Kurds that FOUGHT ALONGSIDE our US-Forces...

The US isn't rexpecting its allies anymore...

The Kurds helped us, where our traditional allies failed... Turkey said NO to US forces, and wouldnt let the US use turkey's airbases, or launch a Northern Flank against Iraq...

SO, the US made a deal with the Kurds in Northern Iraq, then dropped over 10k US Paratroopers in Northern Iraq, and the Kurds led us to Bagdad...

Then, mere years later, the US stands by as the Kurds are attacked by Turkey, the same Turkey that wanted nothing to do with the US...

The US needs to respect our Allies... otherwise, we will have no real allies left...

THIS is an insanely complecated situation, where neither side realy is innocent...

Every passing hour, i feel worse and worse for our Ally... Poor Georgia...

I don't want to start WWIII over the 'other' Georgia, but its just WROUNG to sit idely by as a commited US-ally is destroyed...

Are Georgians not good enough or what? Should they face the same resul as the Kurds? They show the US they are friendly, and do everything to help the US, and when they are in need, now the US runs with its tail between our legs...

Every hour that Russia keeps this going, the greater the chance the West will have to do something...

America's ally is at WAR... we can rise up and defend our allies, or leave them out to die...

reply to post by misswanderer31


To support Georgia in any Military way would mean a US war with Russia.

I'm not sure anyone on either side wants that to happen.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
reply to post by misswanderer31

 

To support Georgia in any Military way would mean a US war with Russia.

But wouldn't Russian have to think the same way?

An attack on an American Ally, is like an attack on the US herself...

SO, by attacking Georgia, its seems like Russia WANTS to fight the US... But at this point, the US is scared, or to cautious to do anything...

So Russia now realises they are able to move unchecked, this is why, i belive, that Russia is EXPANDING the war in Georgia right now... THey are moving UNCHECKED from the world...

Its going to be intresting to see how Moscow redraws the lines...

Sometimes, asking nicely doesnt get the job done...

reply to post by TKainZero


Yes, but there's a couple of points you left out, IMO.

The Georgian troops in Iraq were sent by their government. The same government that is now wanting help. As a sometimes cynic, that looks to me like a player getting points to make a move. Georgia wants into the EU and NATO, so they play good guy and send troops. And, counting their chickens before they hatched, they figured by this time they were in good enough with "The Mob" to start a war, and have NATO jump in to help.

And as far as why Russia kept troops handy, we have no idea what intel they would have had about the plans of the Georgia leadership. They may have heard enough to figure being handy was a good idea. Every country gathers intel on every other, because nobody trusts anybody, not even friends.

Originally posted by TKainZero

But wouldn't Russian have to think the same way?

An attack on an American Ally, is like an attack on the US herself...

Would you honestly want to see US military go in to Georgia and begin firing on the Russian forces attacking Georgians?

Do you have any idea how quickly that could escalate, and kill us ALL?

It can't happen, and we should be praying Bush does not think he can go in there guns blazing like he did in Iraq.

Originally posted by TKainZero
This is a country that was establishing GREAT relations with the US, pushing to join NATO, and a friend of the Western World...

Which is why the Russian response to this has been dispproportionate. They see countries once in their traditional sphere of influence wanting to cast their lot with the West. South Ossetia is nothing but an excuse for Russia to exert their dominance over Georgia once again, an effort to re-establish the imperial borders that collapsed along with the Soviet Union.

This is a scenario we have seen play out before in history between Russia and Georgia, in the piece-meal conquest of Georgia in the 1800s and in the Soviet conquest of the 1920s. In fact, what is happening now can be seen as an amalgam of the two previous conquests, in Russia's support for seperatist movements in Georgia, and the convienent causus belli South Ossetia has provided.

What remains to be seen is if this will be the first step in a further exertion of Russian dominance of former Soviet states. This fear is what has driven so many former Soviet and Warsaw states to all but beg to join NATO since the Soviet Empire fell. If this is the beginning of Russian expansion, can and will the West just sit by and allow it?

[edit on 10-8-2008 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Would you honestly want to see US military go in to Georgia and begin firing on the Russian forces attacking Georgians?

Maybe not. But we (as in the West) can do everything just short of that to help the Georgians.

Besides, Russia is already blaming the United States for this, because the US has supplied Georgia will some military equipment.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Maybe not. But we (as in the West) can do everything just short of that to help the Georgians.

Besides, Russia is already blaming the United States for this, because the US has supplied Georgia will some military equipment.

If what you say is true in that last line, the we have already done just about everything we can short of direct military involvement.

We must be very careful here, the sum of all fears comes to mind... It would not take much for this to escalate into a serious threat to everyone.

There is only so much we can do here, the Russians know that, and I am sure are exploiting that fact... Militarily the US has it's hands tied in this conflict.

What do you think would have happened if Russian military forces fired on the US military when it was bombing and invading Iraq?

There really isn't much more the US can, or should do for Georgia... It is a hard thing to accept, however we must.

reply to post by TKainZero



Uhh the georgians attacked Russia. not the other way around.

The USA's clout as a super power is definately at stake, Russia is communicating pollitically and militarily that is not afraid of the USA , that what can happen to US backed Georgia can happen to other pro western states
Russian forces may-well be pushing for a complete take-over as Georgian troops withdrawl. USA went from world police to world meter readers

"Not afraid of the USA"

Goodness me, what is America, the Death Star of the world? Does Darth Bush have the desire to intimidate everyone using his force grip?

Why the hell would the US want people to fear it? Because of it's own inadequacies regarding it's military capabilities? Why does America have small penis syndrome?

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
What do you think would have happened if Russian military forces fired on the US military when it was bombing and invading Iraq?

Well, they sure has hell helped provide weaponry to the Iraqi military.

There really isn't much more the US can, or should do for Georgia... It is a hard thing to accept, however we must.

I cant say I disagree. I mean, is a nation with 4.5 million ppl really worth escalating this into a much larger conflict? I think the answer is pretty clear.

I do believe though, that the US could successfully deploy aircraft to the region thus denying the Russians air superiority. But then nukes might fly. There is just to many ifs and buts. Its to dangerous.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Gun Slinger]

Originally posted by all2human
The USA's clout as a super power is definately at stake,

What? 27.5% of the worlds GDP rest in America, this in direct contrast to Russia, which accounts for roughly 2.5% of world GDP.

Russia is communicating pollitically and militarily that is not afraid of the USA

]

But economically, it cannot compete, and wont ever compete with the likes of America in that domain. Militarily, the US really has no equal (bar nukes). Russia is no exception.

that what can happen to US backed Georgia can happen to other pro western states

Russia is definitely flexing its muscles. I wouldnt say that this is something America should fear, it just means we need to better equip our "allies" with weaponry capable of deterring Russian aggression.

Russian forces may-well be pushing for a complete take-over as Georgian troops withdrawl. USA went from world police to world meter readers

Of Ossetia and that other "russian province". Russia wants back what was taken away from it after the USSR fell. It wants its former satellite states back.

Bush and Chaney have both commented on this situation now...

And neither ruled out action against Russia...


So now a few quesitions come to mind:

1. Where is the Nearest USAF Carrier?
2. How long will it take to reach the black sea/ Eastern medertaan?
3. What Turkey Doing?


So, how long will it take to get US forces there, and what if any countries would rally to Russias side, AND, how long can Georgia hold out without outside help?

Quite simple.....none of that will be becessary. This will resolve itself in the coming days when Georgis is completely overwhelmed. The US will not get involved!! I promise!!

Originally posted by TKainZero
Bush and Chaney have both commented on this situation now...

And neither ruled out action against Russia...


So now a few quesitions come to mind:

1. Where is the Nearest USAF Carrier?
2. How long will it take to reach the black sea/ Eastern medertaan?
3. What Turkey Doing?


So, how long will it take to get US forces there, and what if any countries would rally to Russias side, AND, how long can Georgia hold out without outside help?