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For there to be true freedom, we would not have government at all, and everyone would be individually responcible for their own wellbeing, protection, and justice.
Originally posted by Cascadego
You find my ideas lacking?
Was I unclear?
At least mine are mine and not rehash of some fourth tier publishing house that tweaked your nipples.
Ah, the great line of the illiterate. My sincere apologies that I read my friend. It seems one can obviously find fault with a person who reads more in one year than most read in a lifetime. I have to say though, that I have formulated my opinions based on the working model of society that I have constructed through careful thought and meditation on these very type of debates. But I guess I rehashed all that time spent with some illgotten book I read.
True freedom is not given.
Did I say it was given? I said it was inherently given. Probably more accurately it is simply inherent.
This is implicitly contradictory. For anything to be given, an accesory party must exist to do the giving. I can not be given something by nothing. The simple unparsability of this sentence is evidence enough. Go stuff it.
Why would earning the right to vote be a terrible idea?
It's a bad idea because it leads us down the road of Starship Troopers, if you've ever read the book. The "earning" of rights constitutes first and second class citizenry, which is fundamentally aginst the Constitution. There lies my problem.
The only bloat this could cause in the gov. is the establishment of necessary guidelines and verification systems.
Yes, they have definately proven effective in that regard.
If you are talking about the actual social programs that would qualify someone to vote increasing in size, i doubt it. The reason is very few people place any value in their voting rights. Would you serve this country for two entire years JUST to get to vote for president?
Although I have already chosen to serve this country, it's is really a moot point. If I had not though, no, I would not work to earn the right to vote. I would rebel against a government that sets up a tier system for rights that people have fought for a died to defend.
And even if you would, could you say the same about the people you know?
As to true freedom, i never claimed it was my want. The idea is to examine society and modify it in such a way as to make it better, to make it more free. Without argument i concede that no government is more free than government, but only for the strong. Certainly a vast majority of "everyone" would suffer under a no government system. Certainly a large percentage of the populace would suffer undue burden: enslavement, death, rape, whatever. Not everyone is gifted with the capacity to protect their own wellbeing, protection, and justice. This is the foundation of society, we all accept a social contract that both enables and cripples everyone to an equal degree.
We agree on that 100%.
Your ideas are simply immature, Jethy. It's okay though, in our society we support the weak, and you can rest assured I will accomodate your ignorance and simplicity, at least temporarily.
Prey tell, what is it I am ignorant of? You must be quite an expert on me since you have read 5 or 6 lines of quick comment. As for simplicity, well if being simple in ideals is bad, then promoting a deluge of bull# must be brilliance.
I'll try to follow suit.
p.s. sorry if this is abusive, i was just making use of one of the added mud-pit features which i highly recommend all following posts to do. If necessary i will curtail my rhetoric with an edit. u2u if req.
Originally posted by Cascadego
We said. I still believe seperating the right to vote from the apathetic would be an improvement however. I will admit, though, that there likely a 'gentler' change that could be made, to accomplish the same effect.
My commie friend down the hall wants me to mention the whole instant-run-off thing, where candidates are ranked, etc. Is that, perhaps, a better way?
Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Something needs to change, and I would encourage a unilateral group along with various non-political people to sit down and discuss system we work under, to include voting.
I think it is not only important, but essencial (sp)