I have a couple questions about 2012. Personally I will prepare for the # to hit the fan but feel like playing devils advocate a little bit.

What is 2012 is a good thing? Im referring to the time wave theory. It shows a shift from the normal to the noval correct? Well why does that have to be a bad thing? Perhaps it represents a social enlightment as we all begin to think differently.

My next question kind of discredits the time wave theory. If something shifts from normal to novel for long enough, that novelty becomes a normality eventually, so does the graph go back up to normality? Wouldnt a constant dip into novelty suggest a constant change, as in every day or year is different from the last, in order to make it remain novel and different from the normal? Or have I totally misunderstood how it works?

Wow post a thread with random doom and gloom predictions and it gets a 100 replies a day, post something like this and zero?

Are you guys addicted to paranoia or what?

Wow post a thread with random doom and gloom predictions and it gets a 100 replies a day, post something like this and zero?

Are you guys addicted to paranoia or what?

That's what it seems like to me.

I think that what we experience will seem very novel at first, but it will eventually become normal reality as we shift away from darkness and integrate it and cancel it out. I'm not sure what the question is though - you seem to answer it yourself. The shift from novelty to normality doesn't mean the return to our current status quo however. I think there will probably be a long-term period of transition, but I think it won't be fret with any danger or darkness. It will be the dissipation of the darkness and the philosophies that came forth from it. We will realize and dismantle those philosophies as we realize their counterproductivity. I think this period of learning will also be where our new mental powers (or remembering of our constant mental powers) is brought forth as we begin to understand how to shape and manifest reality. This will probably be the "shifting" you speak of because the disappearance of novelty will have to mean the disappearance of the "newness" of this new way of thinking.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by MCThompson2x]

[edit on 10-8-2008 by MCThompson2x]

I guess my question is kind of an observation. I dont exactly know how to word it. Brain dead today. Basically all the models I have seen have shown a steady dip towards the X axis and people are scared of any dip on any graph, we are just programmed that way.

But my question lies in the fact that once we hit 0 or the dip hits the X axis, it stays that way.

So my question is, how long does something stay novel or new before it becomes the norm?

If something happens in 2012 that is so novel and changes life forever as people are predicting, wouldnt the graph then go back up as this newness and novelty becomes the norm? That doesnt mean anything would change, but it would just become normal every day stuff, either war or mental awareness whatever side of the fence peoples theories sit on. So when things go up on the graph which is what everyone likes to see, this doesnt mean things are getting better, or even going back to anything, it just means they are becoming perceived as normal, even though they may not change.

But the graph doesn't do that does it, it just plummets and stops. Any drastic change becomes normal eventually as we get used to it, but the graph doesnt show that does it? Why?

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Mikeraphone]

It's been a long time since I checked out the Timewave Zero/2012 stuff, but I was under the impression that McKenna's "Omega Point" would be a kind of "terminal novelty," almost like the end of time. As if the universe would just sort of fold in on itself at that point and cease to be, or at least be transformed so radically that it's beyond comprehension.

I don't know...to my mind, four different things are going on with regard to 2012.

1) The old Mayan calandar reset at 2012, which implies a new cycle or the birth of a "new age." Not necessarily an end, but a new beginning.

2) McKenna's "Timewave Zero" theory, which I think is like a profound, fundamental collapse of the entire cosmos...almost like a metaphysical "big crunch" scenario.

3) Environmental stuff getting bad: All kinds of possibilities for eco-apocalypse, like the Yellowstone Caldera blowing up, solar flares, maybe a mega-volcano, asteroid strike, or mega-tsunami from an ice-self collapsing, etc. These things are hard to predict, but they are getting more and more likely. 2012 is a possible disaster date for several ecological catastrophies.

4) Socio/economic stuff: A collapse of the world finanical system, the takeover of the New World Order, etc etc. A lot of people see 2012 as a reasonable date for some kind of changeover like this.

Only the first one seems to hold out a positive scenario. The others are all disasater scenarios, although you could argue that after the dust settles we can rebuild a better world, etc.

From my understanding I have heard it will be a change to 4th Density consciousness thinking.

Originally posted by silent thunder
It's been a long time since I checked out the Timewave Zero/2012 stuff, but I was under the impression that McKenna's "Omega Point" would be a kind of "terminal novelty," almost like the end of time. As if the universe would just sort of fold in on itself at that point and cease to be, or at least be transformed so radically that it's beyond comprehension.

I don't know...to my mind, four different things are going on with regard to 2012.

1) The old Mayan calandar reset at 2012, which implies a new cycle or the birth of a "new age." Not necessarily an end, but a new beginning.

2) McKenna's "Timewave Zero" theory, which I think is like a profound, fundamental collapse of the entire cosmos...almost like a metaphysical "big crunch" scenario.

3) Environmental stuff getting bad: All kinds of possibilities for eco-apocalypse, like the Yellowstone Caldera blowing up, solar flares, maybe a mega-volcano, asteroid strike, or mega-tsunami from an ice-self collapsing, etc. These things are hard to predict, but they are getting more and more likely. 2012 is a possible disaster date for several ecological catastrophies.

4) Socio/economic stuff: A collapse of the world finanical system, the takeover of the New World Order, etc etc. A lot of people see 2012 as a reasonable date for some kind of changeover like this.

Only the first one seems to hold out a positive scenario. The others are all disasater scenarios, although you could argue that after the dust settles we can rebuild a better world, etc.

Ok, maybe, Im not disputing any of those possibilities at this stage. Every one of them though you have to admit are rather permanent right? So if something novel becomes permanent, it will become normal, not go back to normal, but that novelty will fade and become every day life albeit changed and different from now. So then the graph should reflect this perspective back into normality and go up even if nothing has changed and we just get used to it, but it doesnt.

Originally posted by Epsillion70
From my understanding I have heard it will be a change to 4th Density consciousness thinking.

Cool, which will then become normal to us as we get used to it, so why doesnt the graph go back up?

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Mikeraphone]

Originally posted by Mikeraphone

Ok, maybe, Im not disputing any of those possibilities at this stage. Every one of them though you have to admit are rather permanent right? So if something novel becomes permanent, it will become normal, not go back to normal, but that novelty will fade and become every day life albeit changed and different from now. So then the graph should reflect this perspective back into normality and go up even if nothing has changed and we just get used to it, but it doesnt.

Well, I think there are 3 basic possibilities if you break it down:

1) An "endtimes" scenario: Like the "big crunch" scenario. Fold up shop and go back home. Bye-bye universe.

2) A "cyclic" scenario: The event would be like a reset of a calendar, only on a deeper level. We would reach an extremely high level of novelty, and then we would start over from some kind of "blank slate" of simplicity and low novelty, to be built up again.

3) A "quantum leap" scenario: We undergo a radical shift of some sort to a permanently different or higher level of being or consciousness. Something we can't comprehend right now any more than a bactirium can "know" what its like to be human. Reaching a new level.

It's got to be one of these three...unless its a load of BS and nothing at all special happens, of course.

Originally posted by Mikeraphone

Originally posted by Epsillion70
From my understanding I have heard it will be a change to 4th Density consciousness thinking.

Cool, which will then become normal to us as we get used to it, so why doesnt the graph go back up?

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Mikeraphone]

Maybe normal wont be the Normal that we have been use to or associated the basic understanding of what is, "Normal" in its context of now.
Maybe the graph dosent go up due to an anomalist inference in the interpretation of that current state of mind???
Just guessing

Originally posted by MikeraphoneWhat is 2012 is a good thing? Im referring to the time wave theory. It shows a shift from the normal to the noval correct? Well why does that have to be a bad thing? Perhaps it represents a social enlightment as we all begin to think differently.

I believe all that is true. It is in aspect enlightenment. I believe 2012 is a really good thing. It's a needed thing. It's the "next step" thing. However all that it is good and all, what that really means is, IT is GOOD in a way of that time not to be understood in this time.

In "this time" you might see death only to be reborn a bad thing because you feel you'll lose your life.

Those that do well enough in THIS LIFE will be the enlightened in the next life. It's all one life really.

Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by Mikeraphone

Ok, maybe, Im not disputing any of those possibilities at this stage. Every one of them though you have to admit are rather permanent right? So if something novel becomes permanent, it will become normal, not go back to normal, but that novelty will fade and become every day life albeit changed and different from now. So then the graph should reflect this perspective back into normality and go up even if nothing has changed and we just get used to it, but it doesnt.

Well, I think there are 3 basic possibilities if you break it down:

1) An "endtimes" scenario: Like the "big crunch" scenario. Fold up shop and go back home. Bye-bye universe.

2) A "cyclic" scenario: The event would be like a reset of a calendar, only on a deeper level. We would reach an extremely high level of novelty, and then we would start over from some kind of "blank slate" of simplicity and low novelty, to be built up again.

3) A "quantum leap" scenario: We undergo a radical shift of some sort to a permanently different or higher level of being or consciousness. Something we can't comprehend right now any more than a bactirium can "know" what its like to be human. Reaching a new level.

It's got to be one of these three...unless its a load of BS and nothing at all special happens, of course.

Im starting to think it is all bull# to be honest. Even if 2012 represents some shift in consciousness the graph should still be active after it. So either the graph is bull#, or it really will be the end of the universe, which I doubt.

The whole thing was calibrated to the Mayan calendar so it is dependent on the fact that that is accurate. 2012 is just one of the possible dates they have calculated and translated, and even if it is correct, who is to say they just didnt stop their calendar at that date because it was a nice round number for them or they just decided to stop considering it was irrelevant to them so far into the future.


Right now because the graph just stops, and it shouldnt, I think it is either a) Bull# or b) The world, and thus time, will stop, and there will be nothing to graph against.

Geez, I hate the word novelty, it sounds like something you buy in a five and dime. What is to happen around Dec, 21-23 2012, is a change in our awarness, of the things around us and within us. It will be a shift from the "Me" to "Us" thinking. It will be a shift from the 3rd density(dimension) to the 4th density. In other words, if you passed the spiritual test, you will move up, if not, well then your stuck here in the 3rd till you get the picture and pass the test. It is the awakening within ourselves to what we truly are inside and from where we came. In other words, were on our journey home.

It will be an end of this reality for many, and a step up so to speak, to a higher awarness.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by FiatLux]

[edit on 11-8-2008 by FiatLux]

Yeah if you start to learn to
Forgive
your fellow man/woman the percieved transgressions that you think that they are doing/done/do to you.
Then you get to go to that next level

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Epsillion70]

Originally posted by Epsillion70
Yeah if you start to learn to
Forgive
your fellow man/woman the percieved transgressions that you think that they are doing/done/do to you.
Then you get to go to that next level

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Epsillion70]

This is a very Christian and Buddhist ideology, yet neither of those faiths point to 2012, only the Mayan calender does, and they have left behind no teaching of the such and their culture hardly suggests they lived peacefully.

So where does your idea come from? For lack of a better term, did you just pull it out of thin air? Is it something you would like to see? Or have you seen any evidence other than people acting in the above two ways?

Originally posted by FiatLux
Geez, I hate the word novelty, it sounds like something you buy in a five and dime. What is to happen around Dec, 21-23 2012, is a change in our awarness, of the things around us and within us. It will be a shift from the "Me" to "Us" thinking. It will be a shift from the 3rd density(dimension) to the 4th density. In other words, if you passed the spiritual test, you will move up, if not, well then your stuck here in the 3rd till you get the picture and pass the test. It is the awakening within ourselves to what we truly are inside and from where we came. In other words, were on our journey home.

It will be an end of this reality for many, and a step up so to speak, to a higher awarness.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by FiatLux]

[edit on 11-8-2008 by FiatLux]

Can you please provide sources for these claims?

Also, what if I attain this spiritual awareness, but I do not want to leave this world?

And your theory doesnt sit in the Time Wave scenario either, unless what you are saying is those that reach enlightenment will ascend to a higher level, and everybody else will be destroyed; hardly an act of enlightened beings.

I would really like to read proof about what you are saying, it seems like a lovely theory, but I have not seen nor read anything that claims this other than modern day prophecies that push book sales and people online. Dont get me wrong, it is a nice idea, Id love for it to be true, but where did this come from?

Did the Mayans, who started all of this 2012 stuff, write about any of this?

Originally posted by Mikeraphone

Originally posted by Epsillion70
Yeah if you start to learn to
Forgive
your fellow man/woman the percieved transgressions that you think that they are doing/done/do to you.
Then you get to go to that next level

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Epsillion70]

This is a very Christian and Buddhist ideology, yet neither of those faiths point to 2012, only the Mayan calender does, and they have left behind no teaching of the such and their culture hardly suggests they lived peacefully.

Actually you're wrong. Aspects of Christianity point well toward 2012. However I'll not go over that topic again.

There are many books out on the market that talks about these things. I didn`t have anyone to point me in this direction, and I just went looking, and found many books about this. That`s where I find it hard to believe that you can`t find any of this. A couple of authors that I found that were very good, and they are David Wilcock, and Nassim Haramein. Wilcock has a website called Divine Cosmos, and Haramein has one called The Resonance Project, go check them out. Wilcock has links in his site that you can go to for other information. I`ve read about things such as this when I was a teenager, and I`m 53 now. No one said you had to leave this world. The choice is up to each and everyone of us on how we want to use this shift. You can raise your awarness and stay here if you want, but why anyone would want to stay in this mudhole we call time is beyond me. You see, that`s the wonder of free will, you can chose not to believe any of this, or you can. No one can force you to do something that you don`t want to do. Those who do not become aware, will not be destroyed, they will just stay in the 3rd density till they decide to open their own eyes as to what they are truly about. The rest move up and on. Science is starting to understand this by leaps and bounds, and it is showing in some of the new books coming out in the market. Many have come to understand it just by going within, and doing some deep soul searching, others have found many ancient texts that talk about this.

I`m not sure if the Mayans wrote about it, other then the calendar, but they were a prime example of a race that evolved and moved up and on.

Originally posted by Incarnated

Originally posted by Mikeraphone

Originally posted by Epsillion70
Yeah if you start to learn to
Forgive
your fellow man/woman the percieved transgressions that you think that they are doing/done/do to you.
Then you get to go to that next level

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Epsillion70]

This is a very Christian and Buddhist ideology, yet neither of those faiths point to 2012, only the Mayan calender does, and they have left behind no teaching of the such and their culture hardly suggests they lived peacefully.

Actually you're wrong. Aspects of Christianity point well toward 2012. However I'll not go over that topic again.

Christianity may point to a time of revelation and judgment but it is you and people that think like you that link it with 2012, as the Bible makes no mention of the exact year it is going to happen. So you saying the Bible points to 2012 depends on assumptions you make. You assume something will happen in 2012 and thus link it with the Bible.

You are taking ideas about ideas and using them to explain other ideas. Hardly a concrete way of thinking about things.

"Something is predicted to happen in 2012. The Bible predicts a time of enlightened and revelation. I know! The Bible must be talking about what is going to happen in 2012! The Bible proves 2012! 2012 proves the Bible!"