NEWS: Socialists Oust Spain's Conservatives

Originally posted by zerotime
Nah, throw it out here. Like I said, I don't count anything out as a possibility.

OK here's what I think happened. I think the attacks in Spain were set up in such away to lay the blame on arab terrorists. Who perpetrated the attacks? Well all Im going to say on that is that I think Aznar expected there would be overwhelming support of him. Just like when 9/11 happened everyone rallied around Bush. But the plan backfired when the public knew there was some funny business going on. So they rallied against the aznar gov. and voted them out of office.

So I think the attacks were set up to help aznar's re-election efforts since he was very unpopular with the general population because of his desicion to support Bush. But the plan backfired big time with the people turning on him.

what did i tell ya.... crazy huh?

[Edited on 15-3-2004 by Ocelot]

Originally posted by Saphronia
a van conveniently found abandoned with islamic tapes and denotators inside of it...sounds a little too perfect.

Exactly.

So I think the attacks were set up to help aznar's re-election efforts since he was very unpopular with the general population because of his desicion to support Bush. But the plan backfired big time with the people turning on him.

That is also a possibility...and one that I was not thinking about. They did find all this evidence quickly and came to a very fast conclusion on who was to blame.

Originally posted by zerotime
That is also a possibility...and one that I was not thinking about. They did find all this evidence quickly and came to a very fast conclusion on who was to blame.

Well they started blaming al-Quaida only a couple of hours after the attack happened. Just like in 9/11. The attack on the buildings happen and almost inmediately in the news they were shouting AL-QUAIDA. It always seemed funny to me that in all the months prior to the attack the gov claimed they had no idea but an hour or two after the attacks they "knew" it was al-quaida.

I bet if it had been the other way around (socialists in charge and conservatives pushing them out) there wouldn't be so many people whining here in the US. Like Saphronia said, this is democracy, the will of the people.

The people of Spain aren't going to react the same way Americans did and swing to the far right. It's a different country. To call them pansies because they reacted in a different way than the US is...well, indicative of small thinking to say the least.....

90 percent of Spainards were opposed to the war in Iraq, a war that had no purpose, and only served to stir up more psychopathic terrorists. Spain was attacked by terrorists (supposedly) in response to it's involvement in a war the government dragged the country into. So why in the world shouldn't the people have kicked out this government? Hell, even without the terrorist attacks they might have (and should have) kicked them out anyway!

Originally posted by TheEXone
Regardless of what your political affiliation is, this day can be said to be the day terrorist influenced a democratic election through murder and fear.

Actually the Spanish people probably made this decision long before the bombing. About 90% of the Spanish population were against the war in Iraq, and they went ahead with it anyway.
They didn't want to go there and they certainly didn't want to stay there, so them voting in a new government was inevitable.

I wonder if this will cause a domino effect of prompting wide support for the left and anti-war sentiment.

errr...in case you hadn't noticed here in the UK we have the supposedly left socialist party in Labour. How does that make a difference to you exactly?
We still went to war regardless, and Tony Blair is as bad as any Tory was. The New Left is the Old Right, don't think it'll make much of a difference because it wont.

They all fall in line to big business when it snaps its fingers.

First,I concur with the remarks made by Saphronia amoung others.

Just because our media are telling us that the conservatives were in the lead before the explosions doesn't mean it is necessarily true.

The biggest factor of change since the attacks has been a higher turn out.So this election was probably more democratic than was previously expected.

Another factor was the unwillingness of the Conservative Spanish Government to admit that it was Al Qaeda.Infact they were complicit in perpetuating the impression that it was ETA.Therebye,in the eyes of many Spaniards,withholding growing evidence for their own political gain.

Spaniards,like Britons,were told that the war against Iraq was necessary to prevent future terrorist attacks.Instead they have found to their cost that they are more likely to be attacked.

This represents a serious miscalculation on behalf of our leadership.

Does anybody feel safer since the war in Iraq?

Of course not.Though Iraq did not have any WMD's before the war it is certain that there was the expertise because of previous weapons programs.

If anything we are in greater danger than before and the Spanish election result is a reflection of this.

Yeah, we all know the socialist party is above corruption too don't we? As long as who ever is in charge knows what side theior bread is buttered on, they will vote with the US on international policy.

Oh and supposs they didn't and decided that appeasment is the route they want to take with terrorism? We've all seen how well appeasment works haven't we?

Spain got into the Iraq war because the government had already dealt with home-grown terrorism and Al-Queda was known to have ties in Spain. To say that Spain was a partner in the Iraq war is greatly over dramatizing. They gave lip service and tacit agreement but, very little in the way of direct military action. Does anyone recall the Spanish armies push to Bagdad? Yes they have helped in a small way after the Iraqi army had the crap kicked out of them by the US military. Does this provide some sort of cover for the murder of innoscent people on commuter trains?
Someone said, that they thought that Aznars party could have been behind the slaughter. Why? The whole Spanish policy towards Iraq was not approved of by the majority of the people and for Gods sake I thought Al Queda had no links to Iraq?? Now, after the bombing it's all somehow entertwined? The ruling party said that it was ETA from the start, they did not say it was Al Queda. Hell, they were all petrified that it was Al Queda.

Look at who the winners here were, the Socialist party, ETA and Al Queda. The losers were the conservative government in Spain. (let's be honest, whoever was elected in Spain would have had little influence on the voting US public)

What can the victors take from their victory and use to their advantage in the future? That's the question to ask. What have they learned and what has their opposition learned?

It seems clear to me that it proves that terrorism works. The right use of enough explosives, planted in the right place, at the right time and date, can influence a countries election. What election could they influence next?
Did the world just get safer? Another country falls into the camp of appeasement to fundamentalists religious zealots. Maybe it's the best thing for them. Maybe Al Queda will leave them alone now. Maybe if we gave UBL everything he asks for, he will stop wanting to kill infidels. Keep hope alive.

Variable

US troops are as validly in Iraq as Spanish troops; meaning not at all.
Rental Cars found in Boston airport parking lots with Korans/Flight manuals & Vans found in Madrid Train station lots with a similar cache.........hmmm?
I wonder if they sent the same team for both?

The big upside? The terrorism-in-a-Can planned to bolster the Naked Emperor will have a tremendous backlash if they decide to go through with it.
Either way, we'll have record voter turn out to kick out Bush.

yet another winning point for alqaida like groups they got exacly what they want. spanish troops taken back out of iraq. this is a signal for them it works and they will do it again in other countries with troops in iraq.

and I don't mean the Radical Fundie Islamic people. I mean Los Gente de Espana - the People of Spain. The new government is going to be focused on terror interdiction, from what speeches have provided. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with the domestic security of any nation participating.

yeah I know spain is a rather in a thight spot. it got ETA in spain and now attacks from alqaida like groups. going out of iraq will only lead to nothing because they can bring eta down in a short time but the alqaida will take a longer time and going out iraq will only lead to bring it to an even longer time because one way or the other spain has to take action against those groups in time.

Yay, what a great way to put Socialists in charge of a country! The Socialists caused the terrorist attacks more than likely. As we all know, every country that has been called Communism was never truly a Communist country (there has and probably never will be anything truly Communist - its just to hard to make work) - China, Cuba, Russia, they were all Socialists Dictatorships, not Communism, in any event, terrorists governments that rule by fear. So, the Spanish have just given the government over to what will become a Socialist Dictatoriship - morons. Now their vote won't mean anything.

[Edited on 3-15-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]

Is this the new trend in Europe nowadays, looking for the Al Qaida seal of approval before deciding on who they want to elect as their leaders? Well, if they are leaving Iraq, I hope they swing by Afghanistan and pick up the French and German troops as well and take them with them. We'll find someone else to watch the supplies.

[Edited on 15-3-2004 by Crazyhorse]

No matter who is responsible for the Spain attack, the Spanish message to all Terrorists is:

Terrorism works! Do more killings, and win more concessions! ETA may decide that bigger attacks are needed, with more murder, since their small attacks have not had the effect that 3/11 had.

At least, it works in Europe. And, maybe, just maybe, that's why the Terrorists will now concentrate on Europe instead of the US. The US responded with force to 9/11, and has NOT been attacked since on it's soil.

Prediction: Next large attack--- Italy.

Question: If 90% of Spain was against the War in Iraq, how come the Socialist doves only got 42% of the vote?

Answer: The attacks only affected about 7-10% of the population. That 7-10% of Spain has just put the rest of Europe in grave danger.

I wonder if they sent the same team for both?

I never understand how consipiricy buffs can say things like this with a straight face. The CIA and there minions could never pull something like this off. You black heliocoptor people give them WAY to much credit imho. The most powerfull man in the world could not even keep his blowjobs a secret but, the US can plan and orchestrate the 911 plane attack to look like Al Queda did it? Are these the same guys who went into the middle of a prison full of Islamic fundamentalists, who see America as the "The Great Satan," and started questioning them armed with only pistols or is it the same guys who wanted to "get" Castro by putting a chemical in his food that would make his beard fall out. Maybe it's the same cunning devils who told us that Iraq would be able to build a nuke in in under two years or that asprin factory in the Sudan was a chemical weapons plant. Maybe all the screw ups are carefully orchestrated in order to make them look less cunning then they really are...

Im sure the CIA has smart cookies in it, as does the NSA; so does Microsoft and NASA but, I think we can point to blunders made by them all very easily. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

I think some people cannot fathom how complicated the world truly is and so try to simplify it, so it's easier to understand.

Variable

Whoa everybody! Most are missing the real reason for the electoral rebuke of the Spanish government.

The people of Spain were pissed off at the government for saying immediately it was ETA. The Americans and others told them straight away they thought it was Islamic group. The Spanish people, once the evidence of it being an Islamic group came out rightly thought that the reason for the then current governments claim that it was ETA was purely political. Because the election was coming up, and the current government where totally anti Basque separatism they thought they could gain support for those policies from the people by blaming it on ETA. They thought by the time the truth came out the election would be over. It backfired spectacularly. That's what happened.

On a side note I must be the only one who's happy the Socialists won. Lately it looked like the right was going to take over Europe again on the back of terrorism fears - exactly as they'd planned; what with the win in Greece and the re-rise of Jorge Haider (Nazi sympathiser) in Austria etc.

Blair puts on brave face over Spain vote
TONY BLAIR and his government were today putting on a brave face over the surprise Socialist election victory in Spain which ousted one of Britain and the United States� key allies over the war in Iraq.

Conservative prime minister Jose Maria Aznar was swept from the Spanish premiership in the wake of the Madrid train bombings.

Voters punished him and his Popular Party for their insistence that the Basque terrorists ETA were responsible for the massacre of 200 commuters.

New Spanish leader lashes out at Bush, Blair over Iraq war
MADRID : US President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair "need to engage in some self-criticism" on their decision to launch a war against Iraq, Spain's prime minister-elect, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, said.

"Mr Bush and Mr Blair need to engage in some self-criticism.

"You can't just go ahead and do things. You can't bombard a people just in case" they pose a perceived threat," Zapatero said.