God's 911 warning to the US

Originally posted by Res Ipsa

Originally posted by re22666
reply to post by Res Ipsa

 

sure many churches do do great things. so do many secular groups. i have yet to find one of these secular do-gooder groups though that can qualify as also being a pedophile cult like the catholic church.

and hell, if i were christian, i would call them demonic and anti-christian as well.
thou shalt have no other gods before me
-hail mary full of grace......
graven images are strictly forbidden
seen that statue of mary they pray to? it is by the crucifix and statue of jesus.

but that is not my belief anyway.

......maybe you haven't heard of NAMBLA? ( I doubt they would qualify as a "do-gooder" secular group.....But I got you Re, with the next group.......

The Boy Scouts of America! Have you heard of them? ( my deepest apologies to the BSA and to former and current members) it just was the greatest of examples to show Re, that a non-secular "do-gooder" organization has had its "issues" with pedophile leaders. I am merely pointing out that it is just as erronous to lable the Roman Catholic faith as being a cult of pedophiles as it is to lable the BSA. ((((don't flame me!)))

hey, any group, secular or otherwise that has thousands of pedophiles running throughout its ranks, barely in secret, known and protected...that is a pedophile cult. of course there are bad and good examples of each. that was my point. but if we really want to make a list. how about you list all the innocent people that have been murdered in the name of a god somewhere. i will list all the ones killed in the name of atheism. or would you like to skew this point as well. i thought we understood each other before but you seem to be misconstrung most of what i say now to fit an argument you would like to have. i respect where you are coming from and what you were trying to say. but to debate whether or not the world would be better off with or without religion is just silly. just look at the dark ages. men of science were MURDERED for discovering things; for advancing knowledge. why? it threatened the power of the church. is there a secular example equivilant in history?

Re, bro, dude,
How many brilliant minds were destroyed by the Nazi's....they ain't no religion last I checked.

Could you imagine if we wasted our time with trying to list, or count how many murders are a result of religion vs. how many by secular atheist governments?

Catholics don't worship the crap you say they do. Don't put me in a position where I have to defend a religion that I tried to get excommunicated from. What is the point? I am about the truth of things if nothing else and your idea of the Catholic religion is no more truthful or accurate than the Op's idea of the Muslim religion. When did you join his camp of ignorance?

You are the perfect example of why I told the other posters why I wouldn't want to start a thread about the CC doctrine. You and the Op that probably have nothing in common other than agree that I was wrong.

The CC doctrine has no allies other than those who seek the truth and reject inconsistentcy, and hypocrisy.

The Catholic Church by the way IS the Christian religion....everybody else is protestant or whatever off shoot from there. But maybe you have a different definition of "cult" than I do. Jews and Muslims might be a cult to you too for all I know........( I consider myself Lutheran by the way if I have to be placed into some religion box, I was raised both.)
I wasn't lying when I said I battled it out with a Catholic Bishop about the hypocrisy of annulment and that I wanted to be excommunicated in protest. I would prefer to not have to defend them from a subjective point of view so pick another religion you think is a cult or a nursery for pedophiles......because pedophiles are everywhere. (I bet you didn't know that I spent 10 years of my life working with pedophiles in a prison setting? I know pedophiles.)

Now, if you want the Op to sit back in his chair crossing his arms while reading our debate while he gives his biggest grinch grin at the mayham he has wrought......ewwweeeoooo what a disturbing image.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Re, bro, dude,
How many brilliant minds were destroyed by the Nazi's....they ain't no religion last I checked.

check again. the nazis did feel that they were doing their god's work. you mistake god for God. i said in the name of god, religion in general. the nazi's were very much in the belief that they had divine orders. please check it out. you seem to really have no idea the amount of wars and genocides that have been in the name of god. compared to how many that have been in the name of atheism....this is an easy one to list.

So not fair.

The United States can be said to have done the same thing! We always think God is on our side.

Where are the Atheist Countries. Russia? I think they have done a few things in their day.

Is there a secular Country? or an Atheist one? I thought the U.S. was suppose to be a Country that seperates Church and State.....but we sure seem to invoke the God thing quite a bit during war. However, I think we should take our government at their word and when we go to war and drop atomic bombs we are not doing it for any "religious" reasons.

You don't get to exclude Agnostics from your list either. I mean an Atheist is just as retarded as someone who says they had dinner with God last night. You can't "prove" he exists nor can you "prove" he doesn't. Atheism is a joke! So argue for the Agnostics. I add the United States of America to the list of Agnostic murders in the name of anything other than religion.....so there....poooo poooo to you.

Originally posted by heliosprime
[

We that tell others where that path is are called haters among other things.......it is your own guilt that makes you strike out and call us "haters".......

No my guilt isnt what makes me strike out and call you a hater, it is the blatent and misdirected criticism of others which the Lord Jesus told you specifically not to do. You get all high and mighty about who is obeying God's law and who is not. Which set are you following?

When your wife is on her period do you put her in the garage? That assuming it isnt attached to the house.

When you catch your son/daughter getting it on with their girlfriend/boyfriend do you intend to stone her and him?

Did you eat any shellfish, or pork for that matter?

I suppose your clothes are all one kind of fiber huh?

At what point do you get to pick and choose which of all those laws you are going to force everyone else to follow?

Jesus gave you two commandments Love the Lord God with all your heart, and to love your nieghbor as you love yourself. Your original post and every subsequent statement you have made reflect that you clearly do not follow the second. The sad truth of it is if everyone actually followed those two things the world be a far better place. Take five minutes and play pretend you are one of those groups of people and then tell yourself all the things that are wrong with what they are doing or believing and tell us how you feel after it.

It is up to those who can see the path to tell others where that path is.........unfortunately most of the planet is blind and deaf to the true path.

And you are qualified to do this how?
Were we not told to leave the splinter in your neighbors eye alone until you figured out how to get the beam out of yours?
I am sorry but ill take my chances putting my trust in Jesus and his teachings, over your hate filled message every single time, because the two messages are very clearly not the same.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by Jovi1]

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
So not fair.

The United States can be said to have done the same thing! We always think God is on our side.

Where are the Atheist Countries. Russia? I think they have done a few things in their day.

Is there a secular Country? or an Atheist one? I thought the U.S. was suppose to be a Country that seperates Church and State.....but we sure seem to invoke the God thing quite a bit during war. However, I think we should take our government at their word and when we go to war and drop atomic bombs we are not doing it for any "religious" reasons.

You don't get to exclude Agnostics from your list either. I mean an Atheist is just as retarded as someone who says they had dinner with God last night. You can't "prove" he exists nor can you "prove" he doesn't. Atheism is a joke! So argue for the Agnostics. I add the United States of America to the list of Agnostic murders in the name of anything other than religion.....so there....poooo poooo to you.

first of all, yes the US can be said to have done the same thing. Manifest Detiny anyone??????? I certainly would not exclude the US. you miss the point though. so secular or agnostic or atheist countries do horrible things as well. very very true. why do they do those things? political reasons? greed? power? sure. in the name of atheism? in the name of agnosticism? no. so wars are waged, attrocities commited, either for the honest reasons evil men do things or in the name of a god. if you look at history, you will find that the pile of dead bodies, races exterminated, societies gutted and raped in the name of a god far outweighs that done in any other name.
i thought you were open to fair discussion about this. you said the nazis were example of godless evil. i pointed out they were doing it in the name of god. you retort with that it is not fair because you can say that about america too. well yes you can, but you were wrong. pointing out another wrong does not fix that. just admit it. and if you want to discuss the fact that native americans were wiped out like gnats because God told the settlers they must move west and conquer, lets go start that thread. if you cannot admit that men have used the name of god to commit far more evil over time than not, then we cannot ever reach any understanding. i am going by reality and the given record. you want to defend your god's name no matter what. i am not denigrating your god, or any other god. i am pointing out what an amazing tool for evil they have all been. hell, show me the pile of bodies taken in satan's name. that one is the smallest of them all.
and although i agree about atheism with you, the US is by no means a secular country if you listen to the people running it. they invoke God at every turn. they used God over and over again when talking about the evil doers and triumph over evil before launching this war. the same neocons that cried all december about hearing happy holidays at bestbuy instead of merry christmas are the same ones that pushed for and continue to cheer this war. so while i see a secular country, the people sending troops to kill, see a christian country. so again, here we are, fighting war, with God in the background cheering it on.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by re22666]

Originally posted by Jovi1
And you are qualified to do this how?
Were we not told to leave the splinter in your neighbors eye alone until you figured out how to get the beam out of yours?
I am sorry but ill take my chances putting my trust in Jesus and his teachings, over your hate filled message every single time, because the two messages are very clearly not the same.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by Jovi1]

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Have you missed this part........"but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

The will of the father!!!!! as did Jesus.......it is not hate to point out that man is to follow the commandments........"Love thy neighbor" means to love him enough to tell him the truth..........

By your logic If you see a killer about to strike an innocent child, and you have the power to stop him, YOU WOULD NOT......because it would be "judgmental"? Because of your own sins?

No you would stop the murder of the innocent.

It is not judgment to speak the truth.........nor is it hate..........

reply to post by heliosprime

It is not judgment to speak the truth

Yet you have said nothing that gives any indication you speak any kind of truth. You claim to speak for Jesus and proclaim that all others who claim to do the same have misinterpreted scripture yet you are unable to answer basic theological questions. I have trouble accepting that you have God’s approval to be his mouth piece as you have turned many away from him.

Yeah,yeah, we should just turn into a "Christian" theocracy and be done with it. Right? I mean, that is basically what your initial post is insinuating. Tell me where I'm wrong.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

if you cannot admit that men have used the name of god to commit far more evil over time than not, then we cannot ever reach any understanding. i am going by reality and the given record. you want to defend your god's name no matter what.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I'm all for getting on the same page with you. Men have absolutely used the name of God to commit more evil than not. What that has to do with God is beyond me though.

But you gave me a position that is impossible to argue against....I mean what logical reason would anyone kill someone because they wanted to prove there wasn't a God....."I am rounding all you people up because there is no God" Am I missing a point? What agenda would an Atheist have? or Agnostic? They have no agenda other than "secular" motives...therefore when a Government like the U.S. wages war...it is for secular reasons....so, if you want this to be a fair fight......you can defend the "secular" and I could defend the "religions" WWI, II, Vietnam, Civil war(s), etc....those you get to count as "secular"

....but I imagine after we go back and forth over this silly issue...we will come to the conclusion that Man alone is responsible for the evils they do....and the evil they allow to happen. The flags, The symbols, The titles, they are just different masks hiding the same face.....evil. (when they do naughty things to others)

......your destain for religion should equal what you feel for government.....because both are used and abused rather than what they were designed to be.

reply to post by heliosprime


Regardless of what "book of scripture" one chooses to believe as "inspired" by God or "inspired" by the author via collusion with God's essence or revelations......the truth is.....the universe comprising of multiple galaxies of which are still expanding today is here and has been here for eons. Now if you want to know who God really is....why not start with the God humans knew or didn't know before ANY books were put together attempting to describe Creator. Ask yourself how God communicated with man before these "written" books were put together. To date there are, I believe, 256 denominations of Christianity though it is still evolving.
Evolution of thought
That is what it is.
God, the Creator obviously reveals what you need to know and should know in Nature itself. Nature was created by God and most of what one needs to know in this life is learned through observing nature. Yes, man has become too far removed from nature and hence will never feel complete or "satisfied".
Back to evolution of thought.
I advise those here, interested in this topic read a good book on the history of the worlds religions. I took a few of these theology/philosophy courses at the University.
What you find is....basically it begins with a sun god....then came Hinduism....of which begot Budhism...of which begot....Taoism....of which begot...Judaism....of which begot....Christianity...etc.
Evolution of thought.
Only man has "intellect". Only man can see or plan for the future (extended future that is....not how many seeds can I store for the winter), only man can see himself as he is and where he stands in relation to the world about him, only man can use his creativity to create all the advances in the sciences, only man can use 'reason', attempt to be 'rational'. I think you get the idea by now. God gave man dominion over the Earth though man chose to dessert nature and therefor has fallen from our Creator's essence and is therefor unsatisfied. Art can only attempt to mimic the master artist...our Creator. How does one "know" they are doing a "righteous" deed. They feel it. They know it. When one does 'good'....it feels right...it is suppose to.
We know as much as our Creator wants us to. We are designed to evolve at our pace as all animals here on Earth have been doing for eons. Fossil record is fact....radiocarbon dating is approximately correct to a certain threshold (in millions of years that is). The Earth's strata doesn't lie...the fossil record its Gods evidence staring all of us in the face that chose to see it.
Once again, one needs to ask him/herself....how was one to know God before the books were even written by man attempting to describe that which they yearn for...answers. That should be the question of the day for quiet contemplation/meditation by say the favored river of life. The River seems to be man's favorite setting for 'enlightenment'. Try it sometime and listen...really listen to what is going on around and IN you. Peace brethren.

reply to post by heliosprime


Sapience before judgement.
en.wikipedia.org...

'Organized' religion is just that. Organized.
Now ask yourself why?
If one were to fly through history they may discover that time and again a new set of 'rules' were established for purposes of 'control'. What is the best way man to date has gotten those to 'follow' him? Organized religion. Whether its a king, patriarch, matriarch, inanimate physical idol........ man seeks guidence and unfortunately the worst leaders the world has ever seen has "used" organized religion as a tool to achieve and further the 'rulers' agenda. Most of the time...throughout the ages the rulers did not truely ascribe or believe that which his 'followers' had been led to believe. Real power is to NOT be controlled by...well anyone...but rather to live with sapience with nature as one's guidebook.

Meet en.wikipedia.org...

Many through recent history were glad they did. Though only a man...he held/exposed many truths, revelations and sprung forth a new sense of 'enlightenment' of which had an enormous influence on the creators of the American Constitution and Bill of Rights of which the freemasons ascribed. See more on the history of freemasons. en.wikipedia.org...
They advanced the idea of 'inclusion' of differing peoples, religions etc. allowing members of a multitude of religions to be members. The main requirement was for it's members to believe in a higher being greater than himself. This was an humble approach to man's reason of the Creator (God).
The problem with 'organizations' is that when one subscribes to an 'organization' he sells himself in the sense that he goes along with a group decision often sacrificing his own opinion and rather allowing the group to make policy decisions. Collective Individualism seems more appropriate than dividing mankind into 'organizations'. There is no need for a Democratic 'party' or a Republican 'party'. These are tools our leaders use to advance his/her own agenda while sacrificing man's individuality...in essence making him a victim of the 'organization'. Man should vote for individuals he believes in for the individuals messages, ideas and method of executing those ideas/ideals...not what 'party' they ascribe to. Divide and conquer they say. Whether one is a Democrat or Republican...the men with the money to buy influence in either party will ultimately be in charge. I propose to rid the party politic altogether. When the wealthy and well connected have no 'organization' to purchase or influence...his power is greatly diminished.
On another note; It is a shame that Ron Paul does not appear to be a contender in this election. An avid 'consitutionalist' with a clear record for speaking out on matters of importance to the 'people' he has been sidelined by the pockets of the ruling elite of which are determine to control their 'subjects'. It is never too late to start a new revolution for the advancement of mankind and his relation to one another. By Feb. 2009 we will witness catastrophic changes of which will change the world like mankind has never seen...for it will be on a truely Global scale.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Perhaps Newday meant to express how communication via the written or oral word is limited in and of itself. Can one accurately describe an experience to another to the effect that the 'other' could experience or 'know' that experience in the same way? Impossible

Can one observe an animal in all it's essence and accurately describe/relay their experience of it? For this to take place, one would have to accurately describe how it smells, looks, feels, sounds and perhaps tastes. Again, impossible to accurately relay this information in words, whether written or spoken.

Now can one imagine attempting to explain the nature of the Creator (God) to another with what little they know of the 'nature' of the Creator? Using the written or oral use of words make explaining one's experience of God even more difficult to relay accurately due to the imprecise meanings and understandings of the 'words' one chooses to use as well as the syntax (or sentence structure) they choose to relay their 'experience' to another. Our concepts of knowing and loving are necessarily dimmed with our own finitude. The Creator (God) has an awe inspiring knowledge of the universe our minds could only begin to fathom. All a human can hope for is to advance ones understanding of the world through our personal experiential learning coupled with the empirical sets of knowledge recorded from other humans in the written or oral form.

How many times have mankind 'misunderstood' another whether through translation of the same language or translation to another language. Attempting to translate from one language to another rarely accurately translates the intended meaning.

The other issue is the communicator in question. This reminds me of the old adage "Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying." ~Ralph Waldo Emerson~
www.phnet.fi...
This is my last post on this topic.
Peace Brethren.

Now can one imagine attempting to explain the nature of the Creator (God) to another with what little they know of the 'nature' of the Creator? Using the written or oral use of words make explaining one's experience of God even more difficult to relay accurately due to the imprecise meanings and understandings of the 'words' one chooses to use as well as the syntax (or sentence structure) they choose to relay their 'experience' to another

This is why the practice of the much maligned mysticism is so iportant. The ancient mystics, both Christian and others, tried to explain to man the TRUE nature of man, but, organized religion, through its thirst of power, have demonized it.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Yeah,yeah, we should just turn into a "Christian" theocracy and be done with it. Right? I mean, that is basically what your initial post is insinuating. Tell me where I'm wrong.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

here we go again, just where did I say america should become a "christian taliban"? America can do what it wants, but, my point is as a nation america has dropped it's desire to follow the commandments. As a people america has allowed a few god haters to dictate public policy. These few have removed God from schools, courthouses, and anywhere they possible can.

After Moses brought the hebrews out of egypt there were 250,000 who wanted to follow someone other than Moses. God destroyed all of them. Time and again God destroyed evil doer's. Yet did you hear Jesus even once say what his father had done was wrong? No, time after time Jesus said to do "his fathers" will.

When peter used his sword to cut off the ear of one who was taking Christ to be judged, Jesus did NOT decry the violence........

10Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

11Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

www.biblegateway.com...

I say to you all who read this thread, read, study, research, pray, examine the scriptures for yourself. Don't listem to me or any man study the word for yourself and ask for enlightenment.

Who knows you may even find out there was NO APPLE in Eden.

The most important lesson here is that for the first time in human history God offers mankind eternal life through his son Jesus. A FINAL offering for repentance to mankind. That offer does come with other requirements that include following God law in the commandments and keeping the holydays. Rejecting stupid man made traditions and outright antichrist false prophets............

my point is as a nation america has dropped it's desire to follow the commandments.

I agree with that much. I have said often that the Ten Commandments are really the only thing worth examining from the Old Testament, but this is not the place to discuss that here.

I don't completely disagree with what you are saying. God should not be removed from the hearts and minds of anyone... but I took your initial post to imply that we should just dictate to people what they should and shouldn't believe. You almost sounded as if you were insinuating that if anyone believed other than you do, they were going to burn in "hell."

Originally posted by heliosprime

The will of the father!!!!! as did Jesus.......it is not hate to point out that man is to follow the commandments........"Love thy neighbor" means to love him enough to tell him the truth..........

funny thought it had more to do with treating your neighbor in the manner you would treat yourself, not berate him for his beliefs or lifestyle.

By your logic If you see a killer about to strike an innocent child, and you have the power to stop him, YOU WOULD NOT......because it would be "judgmental"? Because of your own sins?

No it wouldnt be being judgmental it would be drawing a conclusion that given the facts at that moment in time would support a degree of action.

It is not judgment to speak the truth.........nor is it hate..........

Judgment is not yours to make.







[edit on 8/11/2008 by Jovi1]

[edit on 8/11/2008 by Jovi1]

reply to post by heliosprime


Clinton is the most vile leader?

I can think of others.......

Originally posted by heliosprime

11Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

www.biblegateway.com...

America is made up of the lost tribes of Israel, and since it has been banning God from schools, allowing homosexual marriage, allowing vile leaders (clinton) to continue...........the actual Sept 11th attacks were just the begining.............

God has cursed america for straying from the commandments and allowing all sorts of vile sins to become popular "culture". By embracing "multiculturalisum" BS. By allowing idloitry such as buddisim, etc, to flurish.............for allowing islam to exist in america..........

Freedom of religion did not mean freedom of worship of false God's.......

Freedom of religion doesnt have any exceptions on it.I watched Gods warriors on CNN and they showed the Christian movement.Home schooling and all.I wasnt impressed with the way these christians were saying.This is where the right wing politics lose me completely.While i agree with national security policy,i dont believe in Christian extremists either.No different from Muslim or jew extremists.
Heres what i believe and you wont like it.

WE ARE GOD.

Ill even use this quote"God created man in his own image"
Ring any bells?Or how about that voice you hear within yourself?Your thoughts i mean.

Sorry friend but extremist views on religion have got to change or die off.Extremists are becoming an increasing problem in the world it seems.That could just be my POV but i suspect im not alone when i say that.

The problem with this place is anyone with a keyboard and an IQ of 12 can post here. The OP is very ill and needs help NOW!