Originally posted by heliosprime
reply to post by euclid

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Thank you for taking the time to prove my point. The founding fathers were true christians who rejected the idiocy of papal dogma, as jefferson does state. In fact I must agree that it is unclear as to if 'paul" was even a true apostle.

The founders were closer to true "christians" than any TV crook or "megachurch" today. They understood the corruption of the papal priest and other fakers. The "amendment" only states congress shall make no law............

America had enjoyed tremendous blessings from God for 200 years. The slowly, removed God from schools, courthouses, forced mass murder on millions (ROE V Wade), allowed the vilness of clinton to remain in office, allowed the media to push secular humanisim and multicultualisim on our youth while taking away God................

As far back as Daniel 9:11 he warned Israel to seek his blessings, america (modern Israel) has turned away, is following false Gods, even elevated vile islam to "equal" status with the true God. Catholic's worship false gods and idols.

For 200 years america followed the commandments, did God's will, and were Blessed among nations. Now too many americans have turned their backs on God's will and the curses are coming.............

America has changed to a worship of convienience "what feels good" a religion that doesn't make them feel guilty or says dont worry you won't be here (rapture BS).............

The idea of seperation of church and state is a "marxist" idea to seperate america from freedom...............





[edit on 14-8-2008 by heliosprime]

Deism is the belief that a supreme god exists and created the physical universe, but does not intervene in its normal operation. It is related to a religious philosophy and movement that claims to derive the existence and nature of God from reason. It takes no position on what God may do outside the universe. That is in contrast to fideism which is found in many forms of Christianity, Islamic and Judaic teachings, which hold that religion relies on revelation in sacred scriptures or the testimony of other people as well as reasoning.

Deists typically reject most supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not intervene with the affairs of human life and the natural laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.

We learn that Benjamin Franklin, for example, believed primarily in a God of reason but had serious doubts about the divinity of Jesus -- though he strongly subscribed to the moral ideas Jesus preached. Jefferson similarly saw Jesus as a "reformer and moral exemplar" and took a pair of scissors to his Bible to cut away all the parts -- miracles and supernatural interventions -- that offended his intellectual sensibilities.

Washington's religious affiliation, on the other hand, is notoriously ambiguous. Raised as an Anglican, Washington attended church, sometimes regularly. He served as churchwarden, observed fast days and vigorously promoted religion among the soldiers of the Continental Army. Yet he was never confirmed, avoided communion and during his lingering death never prayed nor asked for a clergyman. When he spoke or wrote of God, he favored words with decidedly deist and Masonic connotations: "Providence," "the Deity" and "the Grand Architect." Holmes concludes that Washington was a deist primarily concerned with morality and order, one who favored religion because of the useful role it played in society.

There is no question Jefferson rejected the Bible as divine revelation and rejected the divinity of Jesus. In the Declaration of Independence Jefferson's appeal was to the God of the Deist, "Nature's God," not specifically to the God of Christianity

The Age of Reason: Being an Investigation of True and Fabulous Theology, a deistic treatise written by eighteenth-century British radical and American revolutionary Thomas Paine, critiques institutionalized religion and challenges the inerrancy of the Bible.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by euclid
Thank you for the explanations.

Deism pretty much sums up how I feel about this particular thread. While I do believe that God will intervene if asked, I do not think He shoves his way into our affairs. In that sense, I have to admit that while I vehemently disagree with the OP's statements of anger and hatred, I do see how 9-11 might have been somehow averted IF enough people had prayed for that intervention. The problem there is that no one knew it was going to happen. I definitely do NOT think it happened because God wanted it to.

I'm also confused about one other thing: you mentioned that the FreeMasons hold to Deism and not to Christianity. This confuses me because I have a friend who recently (a few years ago) joined, and yet who claims to be Christian. I'm wondering, who's right here?

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by euclid
Thank you for the explanations.

Deism pretty much sums up how I feel about this particular thread. While I do believe that God will intervene if asked, I do not think He shoves his way into our affairs. In that sense, I have to admit that while I vehemently disagree with the OP's statements of anger and hatred, I do see how 9-11 might have been somehow averted IF enough people had prayed for that intervention. The problem there is that no one knew it was going to happen. I definitely do NOT think it happened because God wanted it to.

I'm also confused about one other thing: you mentioned that the FreeMasons hold to Deism and not to Christianity. This confuses me because I have a friend who recently (a few years ago) joined, and yet who claims to be Christian. I'm wondering, who's right here?

TheRedneck