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Take the Zeitgeist Challenge

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posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 12:35 AM
reply to post by yourrolemodel

Actually, the reason why Jesus is "born on December 25th", is because of the Roman festival of Saturnalia. For one week in Rome, there was complete lawlessness. You could commit any crime and go unpunished, the festival ended on December 25th.

After Constantine declared Christianity the official Roman religion, they had a hard time convincing old Pagans to follow the new faith. So the Church at that time allowed the Pagans to keep all of their old holidays.

Somehow, the festival of Saturnalia slowly evolved into the Christmas of today.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 12:35 AM
cool right on soon it will not matter cuz jesus is coming but not like you think or read or see

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 12:43 AM
reply to post by Shawn B.

You seem to be reading much more into what I said which is evident by adding words into what you are quoting me as saying.

God's plan for mankind as a whole and redemption (Mazzaroth) as compared to astrology which can supposedly tell all sorts of things like individual fortune, relationship compatibility, moods and personalities, etc. If you cannot tell the difference, I am not sure what there is for me to do than can be of any help.

It would be like someone telling me to explain the difference between biblical prophecy and psychic prediction. They're so close, yet so far once you understand the Judeo Christian theological beliefs.

Again, we're dealing with what Christians believe to be the godly original and the satanic counterfeit.

And yes, I do know the difference but if you think I'm typing out a book to prevent you from doing a Google search, you are in for a rude awakening.

reply to post by dalan.

Yes... and one aspect of that is fortune telling. Not sure why our paths just crossed on that. I was assuming such a thing was common knowledge.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 12:59 AM
Everybody on this site and many others have the hardest time dealing with the truths presented in zeitgeist because it turns your little worlds upside down. The christian religion has been lying to you your whole lives and now you're coming to terms with it, yet denying it at the same time. Santa is FAKE, Easter Bunny is FAKE, Priests molest children and churches pay no TAXES and forcefeed sheep things that will make them feel better about themselves since they cannot control their own lives. RELIGION is a form of control. A BOX over your belief structure. The vatican has thousands of documents it hides from the public since the suppossed days of christ and will not release them. All of the corrupt leaders of our country are "GOOD CHRISTIANS" and look at how terrible they really are, when you take a deeper look into their lives. But the debate has to stop at religion because no one can deny the other parts of that movie. The FAKE needs for war, the illegal money system designed to create unending debt. You can't defend your side of that arguement. Because it IS REAL. THEY Do want control, and have since that book was written. They slaughtered millions of people till the ones remaining agreed that their ways and teachings were the only ones right. And all the other religions do the same things with their people. Divided we fall. They've kept us divided for thousands of years so that they could manipulate smaller groups of us into doing their biddings.

If jesus is real, get him to give us the miracle of world peace. Then you can say you have proof. Tangible evidence. But to use just the bible to make a debate. COME ON!!!! the world was flat when that book was written. Things have changed since then... What about how all western christian religions paint jesus white with blue eyes even though he was supposedly born in a middle eastern country covered in deserts???? Alittle odd, dontcha think???? not even a tan???? Wake Up.... Even 100 years ago, the average intelligence of a common man was that of a large 6th grader now. Its time to evolve.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 01:03 AM
reply to post by AshleyD

I really just said it because I am an avid defender of Astrology.

I mostly just did it for everyone else's benefit. People should stop regarding an Astrology reading as psychic reading or what not.

I have always compared Astrology to predicting weather patterns. Both Meteorology and Astrology deal with observing cycles, and what effect that cycle will have on you.

Not saying you didn't already know that, just wanted to set the record straight.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 01:09 AM

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

Nice sucker punch you got in there.

Sorry, I should've thought more about the subject matter. I guess Jesus IS real, I mean look at this:

“The message that I got was that He was telling me that He was with me,” Square said. “I feel proud and blessed that I have this picture.”

When Jesus appears in my cell phone, I'll believe it.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 01:34 AM

Originally posted by AshleyD
God's plan for mankind as a whole and redemption (Mazzaroth) as compared to astrology which can supposedly tell all sorts of things like individual fortune, relationship compatibility, moods and personalities, etc. If you cannot tell the difference, I am not sure what there is for me to do than can be of any help.

Astrology is based on a theory of divine government of the world in other words God's plan.

It seems Mazzaroth is just the word constellations anyway, rather then a system like Astrology.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Can you lead forth a constellation in its season, And guide the Bear with her satellites?
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Can you bring out the constellations at the right time or guide Ursa Major with its cubs?

King James Bible
Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

You say Pagan astrology, but I can't even find anything called Pagan astrology, I'm guessing you mean Babylonian, but the Babylonians didn't seem to use it for individual fortune, relationship compatibility, moods and personalities, etc. Instead they seem to use it for what you say the Mazzaroth is used for, but the Mazzaroth seems to just be the word for constellations rather then a system like astrology...

Here's a list of astrology systems...

This seems to be th only Jewish astrology, but I guess it started in the middle ages rather then before Jesus.

Here it says mazzaroth is just the name of the 12 sings of zodiac...

Here too...

[edit on 9-8-2008 by Shawn B.]

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 01:50 AM
There is a cool article on another forum about Thomas Jefferson and the "Jefferson Bible." One of our founding forefathers apparently believed in the teachings of Jesus but not the immaculate conception, ascension, or angels of the bible. He cut a bible up and put in it only the parts he felt were the actual teachings or realities of Jesus, leaving all the hocus pocus out of it. I think it said it totaled 64 pages, after the edit.
I have not read this, but if one of the writers of the constitution, that penned, "in god we trust" had doubts back when citizens were superstitious and somewhat "crazy" going on witch hunts, that should tell you something.
I don't know why Religious people freak out so much about the "word." No offense, but most of the teachings of Jesus directly contradict the way Christians act towards non-believers. I think you should re-read the bible and what Jesus was preaching. I was raised Christian, but due to the lunacy of some parts of the bible, I cannot take it as a truth. However, I do believe that the principles of Jesus' teachings are good ideas, but if you think you should condemn someone for not believing as you do, you totally missed the boat on what he taught.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Looks like it's UP to $250 now. I know - I know - more excuses -- " it's not worth opening a few books" - "it would take almost an hour of research" -- if the claims were true you could back it up in 15 minutes.

The real issue is --- It might dismantle your fantasy world existence as well. The bible is truly the word of God. Jesus was who he claimed to be - not who Zeitgeist says he was.

i will offer you double your reward to prove to me the exact opposite. prove beyond a reasonable doubt that jesus as portrayed in the new testament is historical fact.

if you do not prove this to me, does that make me the winner even if i cannot prove what you ask?

$500 to the OP if he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the jesus of the new testament existed and lived that life.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:24 AM
Offering $$$ to other posters on here is pointless. Obviously, no one will ever pay up as they will always believe they are matter how wrong they truly are.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:26 AM
A good Laugh ( for myself anyways) .....

It seemed so plausible.

I'm agnostic and Carl Sagans quote below here suits me. Except I lean towards the belief that a group of powerful men devised a way to write a book to enjoy power and control over a populus and pass it along to their seed.

"My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic."

-Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author

And I am despising these religious wars being raged on a planet we're all living on. So Enjoy your faiths and use a towel to wipe the blood from your hands.
"I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. No agnostic ever burned anyone at the stake or tortured a pagan, a heretic, or an unbeliever." Daniel Boorstin

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:30 AM
Another point I would like to make, is that I don't believe these theories to necessarily be anti-christian. I believe them to be pro-truth seeking. The bible was compiled and written 300 years after Jesus' life. The gospels were not written by the disciples, they were written well after their lives by people claiming to know what their stories and teachings about Jesus were. Then the part I find enlightening in the search for the truth is that this religion was adopted by Constantine who called the Council of Nicea, which was the first general conference of the Christian church. There were 21 acknowledged cannons and 10 disputed cannons. The disputed ones were ones believed to have no basis in reality.('cause immaculate conceptions, rising from the dead, and raising the dead are so reality based)
Anyway, there were so many hands in the till, it's hard to say what was real and what was fantasy. Not to mention, if we had no written accounts of the holocaust and 300 years later people finally decided to put it to pen, what do you think the stories would have built up to? Imagine how a horrible truth could turn into Satan's demons. Though I believe the holocaust to be a sad point in human history, I do not think the Nazi's were Satan's demons, they were a fanatical cult killing in the name of their religion, like others before them.
We cannot say the bible is fact. There may be facts in the bible, but it is very difficult for one to distinguish the two. Authored 300 years later, pulled apart by the church and pieced back together, rewritten by a king to control the people; the bible just cannot be proven as accurate or truthful, so I wish believers would stop acting like questioning the truth is a blasphemous act. God gave us brains, if he didn't want us to think and question and learn the truth, he wouldn't have made us who we are, or given us free will. Remember we were made in God's image, so if I behave intelligently, maybe that's because God wanted me to. Maybe the New Testament isn't about God, just a man who had some good ideas that he believed were God's words. What if the "miracles," were just a way to make people listen, while getting the word out? I much prefer a good story over a boring lecture.

I guess I just don't understand why questioning for a better understanding is a bad thing. Why is wanting to know the truth so bad. And why the hell are there so many people out there that just take their preacher's word for it, or their parents, or their bible. How can you question and get the same stupid nothing answers and not doubt any of it?

Not trying to offend here, but I know I will because everyone is so touchy about religion. It's like you cannot have an open discussion without hurting someone's feelings. I have a scientific mind, so answers are things I seek, not hurting people's feelings.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:32 AM
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

hey, i have a paypal account and the money. if the OP can prove to me that the opposite of what he would like to prove, I will pay up. According to him, this can be proven one way or the other so i am confident that he has figured out a way to prove it beyond opinion.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:34 AM
Ummm.... seems like a lot of posters did not watch the movie, weren\'t paying attention, or are just off topic? From what I recall, Zeitgeist pretty much admits that Jesus the man did exist, and gives examples as to why. They are \'debunking\' the divinity and story behind him. ie: Jesus the Christ...

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:40 AM
ok people, look:

The real issue here as I see it is not where Jesus came from or who he was, or who is right and who is wrong. The issue is people tying too much of their own sense of worth and self-identity to what they believe. I see this on all sides-people demanding that their group have the right to express their views and beliefs and then trying to deny other groups the same privilage. Unfortunately, Christians take a lot of the heat from this,"I have a right to my beliefs, and if you don't agree with me then you are wrong and a bad person.". an extreme example of this is the God hates America people. not all Christians are like this, and neither are people of other religious groups, belief systems, sciences, etc... there is nothing wrong with wanting to defend your beliefs or your faith. However, I do think it is wrong to use intimidation and bullying to persuade people to see things your way. i think that what people want when they say, "Prove to me that my faith is wrong," is to be told that they are right. you cannot prove faith. you can prove that certain things are accurate(ex. historic locations in the bible), but i don't think that that proof should be the thing that your faith hinges upon. "prove to me that Jesus never existed...", the flipside to this is: prove that there is a god. prove. and not with faith, but with scientific, verifiable proof. can that be done, and if so, should it?
faith can heal. it can keep a person going when all else is lost. however faith turned the wrong way can be a very dangerous weapon.
i'm not saying we all have to sit around the campfire and sing kuum bayaa. i'm saying that as people we should do our best to love each other, treat each other well, and make an attempt to understand one another. we are born the same, we bleed the same, we die the same. personally, i try and help others through my emergency medical training, and i try to help myself through my faith in god. that is what works for me. people are going to read this and some are probably going to poke a gazillion holes in it-that is fine. if tomorrow cam and the front page headlines announced that there is no god, my faith would not change. i know in my heart that i am trying to do what is right and that is enough for me.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 02:53 AM
Dear posters, I think a subject as this could easily go ugly, because for a lot of people religion is the basis for their whole lives.

I strongly hope that A GOD exists and the he would undo al wrong an take care of justice

but I have 2 thoughts wich you could help me with:

1) A believe can never be proven, because as soon as it is, it is no longer "believe" but knowledge. If God exists he would want believe to be believe and never give any "solid prove" He would not want for us to "know", but to "believe"! What value would it have to act to something scientific?

2) Why of places and races would God pick the time, place and location to show us something like Jesus the way he did? I know man ought not to question His doings, but I just can not think of a reason that he would choose our western civilization, and leave the rest of the world "in the dark". That just doesn't seem fair. If Jesus came down and healed you from whatever desease, no doubt you would be a believer (knower). But to convince your neighbour would be quite a challenge. My feeling of justice would have explained a world wide appearance with a million Jesuses. This would be in his power, I'm sure!

Just my thought, no offence ment to anyone.

[edit on 9/8/2008 by saturnus1962]

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 03:09 AM
Wasn't the whole point of the crusades to destroy by fire and the sword all evidence that was contrary to the Christian mythos? That is like asking for evidence of the world trade center bombing being a controlled demolition 2000 years after the towers were melted down and sold to China.

Give me a break. Producing evidence in the wake of concerted evidence destruction is not possible. That is the whole reason for the high level conspiracies that are outlined in Zeitgeist.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 03:24 AM
right look for truth in the establishment? who cares everyone knows the bible is BS and jesus was just a punk cult leader if he even existed.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 03:42 AM
reply to post by Bigwhammy

I believe jesus was a real person, but not the son of god no, because there is no proof of a god. Zeitgeist does seem rather propoganda based and badly researched. However the bible also seems like it's been put together from multiple sources, old myths and heavily edited.

Jesus i'm sure existed, just was an excellent magician. Doesn't mean i should worship a man.

posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 04:05 AM
haha watchin over me? so somehow theres a higher being who sees everybody all the time? musy have alot of spare time on his hands haha. readin your claims throughout the post, all your doin is callin people whiners lol. people have blind faith in zeitgeist just as you have blind faith in jesus. wake up child

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