Take the Zeitgeist Challenge

Originally posted by skyshow Are you trying to debate that Zeitgeist is a fraud, or are you trying to persuade others to believe in your brand of mythology and it's gods?

OOOh! are we placing bets on this?? I place my bet on the latter!

My opinion: THe religious part of the Zeitgeist movie is no more based in hard core fact than the Bible is. There are elements of truth in both and there is much speculation in both..... they both hold good points, but neither is one that I would wrap my whole belief system around.

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

What does all of that have to do with Zeitgeist the movie? Listen here, I know where the nearby mega-entertainment-metropolis church is at, and I know how to open the front doors and enter on Sunday with all the other SUV driving, cool-aide drinking, drunk on religion sheeple if I want to. I am on this thread to try and see how folks reason this thing out and then I come to your posts and tell me how it's any different that proselytizing Sunday morning at some church somewhere? huh? How can you get on here and debate such subjective superstitions as the existence of whom you call God, demons and Satan? How is this adding to the conversation when you present unverified variables and figures from mythology like this? What are you telling us that we haven't already heard before? I don't see one shred of evidence that these gods even exist as presented, yet you serve them up like it's something set in stone. How is that? By the same way, I could print up here in a blog post how Santa Clause climbs down the chimney on the third day following the Winter Solctice to deliver for all the little boys and girls toys manufactured by little elfs at the North Poll and brough hither by a team of rambunctious raindeer, and of course we all would know that was the ordained gospel...jeesh, do you actually think you're going to convince ATS'ers of such? You think we come here to seek to repent and be saved by your Jesus god? Unbelievable.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. Ney. I'm trying to say that at ATS we damand a bit more than the regular tired and worn out religious mantra. Are you trying to debate that Zeitgeist is a fraud, or are you trying to persuade others to believe in your brand of mythology and it's gods? In my opinion, what your actually succeeding in doing is pointing out a major part of why ATS exists in the first place!

I was answering questions posed to ME. And as far as "repenting and being saved"? You don't have to do that if you don't want to. God created you with free will. You can choose to worship a Snickers bar if thats what you want to do.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]

one thing that allows concepts like zeitgeist to gain any foothold, is the fact most people know very little about ancient history and associated languages. the ones that do know, often assume none of it is real and write their texts in this fashion. there were MANY sons of god, sons of gods, and so on. there will automatically be some words they share in common as a matter of course and across language translations. but zeitgeist ignores most of it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I hate to break it to ya' (well not really but...) but some god didn't create me...my momma and daddy got together after a few drinks at a drunken frat party, and the sperm from him fertilized my momma's fertile eggs and long about 9 months after their mutual orgasms a baby was born. As for free will, that is still up for debate among philosophers and has been for centuries, and if you bothered to poke your head out from the covers of the bible once in a while (statistically speaking chances are you don’t even read that book, but that’s aside from the point) and venture out into the library and read up some material on this matter you might then also come to understand that the subject is a bit more complex than what comes out of mythology and superstition.

So yeah, your god didn’t make me. Free will is a miss nomer. The only choices are not to select among a plethora of made up gods, such as your candy bar example to worship, but also one of not worshiping anything at all. Why is the concept of being free from the control structure of church dogma and made up belief systems that hard to grasp? Surely not all minds are so feeble?

I now suddenly feel like I need to go take a shower to rid myself of this filth...we don't live in caves anymore!!!!!!!!!!

*edit for spell check*




[edit on 14-8-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Is this your challenge, whammy?

Bit stingy.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


When will the world wake up and realize that religion is nothing more than geographical culture that has been violently spread in every direction, ultimately creating the most backwards convolution of the divine understanding?

Example: There is a word for water in every culture in the world, however there is only one water. Truth is that there is only one GOD, and all of our spiritual shortcomings are what keeps us from seeing this reality.

Why are we all still fightig over silly semantics? I'm sure Jesus is proud of all of you distorting his messages.


AAC

[edit on 14-8-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Sorry guys got here late could one of you give me a quick summary...in fact can you just answer this question, did Jesus really look like Robert Powell?

Zeitgeist...? Sounds familiar, I may have to look it up.

Keep the faith....Peace!

reply to post by skyshow
And thank you for your opinion. You're entitled to it.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by re22666

 

My friend, there are scores of seular accounts of Jesus, there are scores of secular accounts of miracles. One in perticular is a source that states there was in fact darkness at the crucifixion of Jesus even though astrology showed there wasn't supposed to be one.

What happens then is humans come along after that and then discredit those secular accounts.

"Proof" is relative my friend, if a person doesn't want to believe something he never will no matter how much evidence there is.

scores? really? where are they? how can i read them? how can i verify how old they are?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by re22666

 

My friend, there are scores of seular accounts of Jesus, there are scores of secular accounts of miracles. One in perticular is a source that states there was in fact darkness at the crucifixion of Jesus even though astrology showed there wasn't supposed to be one.

I have to agree with re22666 and ask where the 'scores' of secular evidence is. Lets take the account given of their being darkness when jesus died, where are the scores of evidence ? - we have George Syncellus citing Julius Africanus citing Thallus which states
"on the whole world there pressed a fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down.".
Forgive me if I'm wrong I really don't see any concrete evidence that Thallus was talking about 'the darkness' and also there is no evidence that Thallus even wrote this line.

What happens then is humans come along after that and then discredit those secular accounts.

Discredit where discredit is due

"Proof" is relative my friend, if a person doesn't want to believe something he never will no matter how much evidence there is.

We could reverse this to if a person wants to believe something he always will no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary - its called FAITH


G

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by re22666

 

My friend, there are scores of seular accounts of Jesus, there are scores of secular accounts of miracles. One in perticular is a source that states there was in fact darkness at the crucifixion of Jesus even though astrology showed there wasn't supposed to be one.

What happens then is humans come along after that and then discredit those secular accounts.

"Proof" is relative my friend, if a person doesn't want to believe something he never will no matter how much evidence there is.

scores? really? where are they? how can i read them? how can i verify how old they are?

Do you actually realize that the exact same litmus test you use to discredit the secular accounts of Jesus Christ also discredit the "proof" that Alexander the Great existed?

The only proof he existed is from accounts written by historians after he died.

And his life has FAR less of an impact on Earth today than the life of Jesus Christ.

Think about that fact when you want to discredit the secular accounts of Jesus.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.agapebiblestudy.com...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by re22666

 

My friend, there are scores of seular accounts of Jesus, there are scores of secular accounts of miracles. One in perticular is a source that states there was in fact darkness at the crucifixion of Jesus even though astrology showed there wasn't supposed to be one.

What happens then is humans come along after that and then discredit those secular accounts.

"Proof" is relative my friend, if a person doesn't want to believe something he never will no matter how much evidence there is.

scores? really? where are they? how can i read them? how can i verify how old they are?

Do you actually realize that the exact same litmus test you use to discredit the secular accounts of Jesus Christ also discredit the "proof" that Alexander the Great existed?

The only proof he existed is from accounts written by historians after he died.

And his life has FAR less of an impact on Earth today than the life of Jesus Christ.

Think about that fact when you want to discredit the secular accounts of Jesus.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.agapebiblestudy.com...

i did not ask you to try to turn my logic back on me. we already covered that and you got it wrong twice now so stop. i said...scores???? really???? where are they? i would read each and every one with great fervor. all i have been missing all these years are these scores of secular accounts of jesus' life. if you want to debate alex the great somewhere, go for it. i do not think that is relevant to this thread and certainly not to my point. you have over 40 DIFFERENT secular historical accounts of this jesus. lets see them. all of them. hell, how about half of them. i know some folks that have been looking for that kind of evidence for a very long time and would reward greatly the person to bring it to light.

zeitgeist merely shows how a roman emperor changed an agricultural manual into a crowd control manual.....none of this info is new...and there is PLENTY of evidence around if u want2look and find it...sure itz gonna make the clappys go further into denial cos it is put in such a simple and direct way.....but u get that with the big gigs dont U?.......just like why would the catholic church have itz own hubble telescope-what would it need it for??? they are aware of planet X and it's ramifications and that the climate change thing is more effected by this than the #e we've been fed by corporate spun media and the carbon tax con-job which just results in more invisible money swallowed up by the rothchilds,rockerfellas and #wit bankers etc.
we are letting the world be taken from us by a few evil #s and the smartest among us are compromised by stupid insideous religious beliefs that deny and clowd their natural intelligence from seeing this....
i am a loving compassionate human being,i care about my fellow man,i help people,i don't want2own everything or control anyone,im over myself,i don't need2keep consuming more than i need to be happy,i want2see harmony,i make music which is the process of creating order out of chaos,making something out of nothing-i work on what i do to make things more beautiful......i could go on but my point is:

i did not need jesus,buddha,krishna,mohammed to tell me how2do this and how2be what i am.....it came instinctively...everything u need in this life is right here inside of u......mankind has lost it's way for so long that u gotta take from all of everything,finding the seldom same truth in diametrially opposing spheres and find the lost ways and techniques to access everything we forgot on the surface but is still there at a deeper level-everything u need2know u have already-u just have2dig deep enough2find it-and then there is always a feeling that tells u when u find it-and there is always a feeling that tells u2keep an open mind for more.....

...sure these guys all may have lead by example on how2perfect oneself living this life as a human.....buthow us humans have portrayed they're perspectives is another thing-human beings have taken these original wholistic lessons and processed and homogenised them towards their own selfish desires for control and power...the creation of the bible is a huge epitemy of this what is the most insideous part of it's creation is that all the plagurised stories and myths etc. that often teach humans amazing virtue have all been used in a twisted way to control good people with stories of goodness whilst the few aware people controlling the whole mechanism get away with really really bad # and all the good people trying to do the right thing by this book of good instructions twisted by faulty people dont even see it cos they are so 'blinded' by the faith..

guilt is the biggest side effect and dysfunction man has suffered from the perception given of the whole by the catholic church...the mental illness this has created in the psyche of mankind over almost 200 years is just so unreal....the'god fearing' attitude is just plainly wrong and negative...itz machiavellian...it limits ,represses and suppresses a humans natural being in so many different ways-it creates physical illness from this constant fear based psychology..
this guy will give $200 for proof......is that all it's worth 2 u hey buddy???!!!!
there is plenty of proof around if u want2look for it but u got2thirsty for it or mabe ur so insulated by material props and creature comforts that u've never been in an existential situation that has driven u2find it for urself with ur own mind&critical analysis...

i saw this quote on one of my facebook friend's page,a christian in fact.. 'sex is sin,sin is forgiven...so stick it in'

to me,that sums up that this negative way of thinking that creates this 'being'

u are what u eat
u are what u think

very simple stuff we still don't get

You can click the links.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


well first of all, i can show you a youtube video proving a hollow earth, an oasis in antartica, 57 breeds of aliens. i am sorry but youtube videos are not only a waste of time when looking for documented evidence but exactly that- NOT documented evidence. and your link has 9 citings with absoloutely NO references. any decent work of research at least shows where it got its information and that does not for the whole 9 people it states. i guess since i am unfairly dismissing your videos, lets say all 9 are good and valid. you are still at least 31 off.

Yes zeitgeist is an embarrassment to legitimate atheists. It's highschool level work just plagiarizing some already debunked sources.

Originally posted by DickieDee
Yes zeitgeist is an embarrassment to legitimate atheists. It's highschool level work just plagiarizing some already debunked sources.

why is it an embarassment. it has gotten people asking questions. it got kids questioning the half-assed religious education they are getting. it also got all this arguing and discussing going on over the validity of the bible. what about it exactly has been debunked? that christianity is a lie all religions? that governments use these sames kinds of tactics and fears to control us?

i was listing to GCN today. thats a christian network and someone called in with a question about a book that made them rethink some things about the bible. the christian host responded...by telling him the truth and putting doubt away? no.
by explaining the bible a little better? no.
by helping the caller understand what was wrong with the source material he was now reading? no.
he said this, "do not read stuff like that. it is satanic lies to make you turn away from god and the best way to battle stuff like that is just do not even look at it."

what? dont look at it? what kind of sick mind control BS artist has to resort to telling you to sit in the dark and just listen the what we tell you? if there is any validity to the host, his show, christianity, and their god, surely he could have simply swatted it all away with logic and explanations. instead, sit in the dark and dont listen. seems to me we need this film making kids raise there hand in school and ask why the bible is so full of holes.

Originally posted by re22666
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

well first of all, i can show you a youtube video proving a hollow earth, an oasis in antartica, 57 breeds of aliens. i am sorry but youtube videos are not only a waste of time when looking for documented evidence but exactly that- NOT documented evidence. and your link has 9 citings with absoloutely NO references. any decent work of research at least shows where it got its information and that does not for the whole 9 people it states. i guess since i am unfairly dismissing your videos, lets say all 9 are good and valid. you are still at least 31 off.

I respectfully have to disagree. Just because some or most don't doesn't mean that ALL don't. You need to watch it first before you can claim it doesn't present documented evidence. That's a logical fallacy to assume all are trash because some or most are trash.

But again, I have no idea why you cannot search this stuff out on your own? I had no idea there was secular evidence for Jesus until I did the research. No offense, but it leaves me with the impression you truly aren't interested in finding out if the information is there or not, but more interested in looking at one side that supports your preconceived notions.

Again, I'm not trying to disrespect you, but if the truth is truly what you seek then you can also research the other side with the same level of vigor. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I respectfully have to disagree. Just because some or most don't doesn't mean that ALL don't. You need to watch it first before you can claim it doesn't present documented evidence. That's a logical fallacy to assume all are trash because some or most are trash.

But again, I have no idea why you cannot search this stuff out on your own? I had no idea there was secular evidence for Jesus until I did the research. No offense, but it leaves me with the impression you truly aren't interested in finding out if the information is there or not, but more interested in looking at one side that supports your preconceived notions.

Again, I'm not trying to disrespect you, but if the truth is truly what you seek then you can also research the other side with the same level of vigor. Am I wrong?

well perhaps i see it this way. i would like to know what qualifies as secular historical evidence and proof of it to you. because your research may be worthless, it might be based on things like youtube videos. i have done my own and found not one credible historical reference to jesus outside of the fact that there may have been people with that name. but you claim there are scores. scores i cannot seem to find so i asked that you share that wisdom with the rest of us. and you can discount my discounting of your 9 all you want. you stated there were scores. i already spotted you 9, and that was half hearted but in the spirit of seeking the whole truth. where are the other 31? i have done my research.
this is what is wrong with ATS. because you make a claim and i ask you to back it up, you assume i did no research and am just asking you to do it for me. at least that is the defense i hear all the time. i never asked you to research anything for me. i asked you to back up your claim that there are scores of secular historical accounts of the biblical jesus. if you cannot back a claim up, perhaps you should refrain from making it. i did all the research i needed to to reach my conclusion. you seem to have found things i cannot, please share.

reply to post by re22666


Sorry, I have been busy with work, I'm a chef and there are 2 conventions in town. I will do the legwork necessary to give an accurate reply soon, most likely late tonight (Sunday) or Monday on my day off.

Haven't forgot about you.

~Typ