I could only bring myself to watch a little bit of the video. Very disturbing to say the least.

I remember reading about the case a while back when the movie came out and I did a bit of research. Certainly makes for good reading if you're interested in the phenomena.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by Ocelot]

I feel very sorry for the girl, but in my opinion it wasn't the devil that caused her suffering. It was archaic attitudes towards sickness and mental illness. Poor thing.

She sounds almost exactly like Linda Blaire! Well, and sometimes like a very angry cat.

I don't recall reading up on this girl. Though there would have to be some extreme evidence before I would assume she was possessed. Wouldn't a demon have more fun in an adult body? More autonomy? Get out and about without restrictions? I would think so.

Originally posted by Sonya610
She sounds almost exactly like Linda Blaire! Well, and sometimes like a very angry cat.

I don't recall reading up on this girl. Though there would have to be some extreme evidence before I would assume she was possessed. Wouldn't a demon have more fun in an adult body? More autonomy? Get out and about without restrictions? I would think so.

Excellent point! Why do the possessed always just lay there and writhe around saying obscene things? If you are going to possess a body, do something with the body!

Didn't the catholic church reverse its position the she was possessed and state she was mentally ill. And as far as I'm aware the priests that performed the 'exorcism' were convicted of helping to kill her.

I am of the position that so called demonic possession is a mental illness and like other posters find the idea of possession quite absurd

G

The pictures themselves are very creepy. I didnt really listen to the video much, its just a little too much for me.

Originally posted by shihulud
Didn't the catholic church reverse its position the she was possessed and state she was mentally ill. And as far as I'm aware the priests that performed the 'exorcism' were convicted of helping to kill her.

I am of the position that so called demonic possession is a mental illness and like other posters find the idea of possession quite absurd

G

It has been awhile since I read this story, but I believe that the actual cause of death was starvation. And yes, the priest was convicted of helping to kill her. If someone has read about this more recently, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Vincent Li is a current victim of "demon" possession. The demon's have a background and a history, they are the djinn. They feed on humans, eating our flesh and drinking our blood. Possession is body-jacking, the mind is displaced by thousands of other minds that most humans do not have the capability to deal with. The human trapped inside with these fiends is the biggest victim of all. Mr Li is under torment as i write this and as you read it. If he ever regains himself, he has to live with the fact that he was mentally raped, that he killed his fellow man and that he practiced canibalism and drank human blood. The body parts the police confisicated from him are the same parts removed in cattle mutilations. Everybody in the civilized world knows who he is and what he did. If he cannot come to grips with that, then he is forced to the final indignity of taking his own life. Who is a greater victim than he?

Read about her childhood. The girl wasn't possessed. She was nuts and her mother only perpetuated it.

Aw man, I wanted to see this disturbing video! All I get is 'access denied"! What a bummer. I saw the movie and IMO the priests and her parents were all responsible for her death.

Originally posted by shihulud
I am of the position that so called demonic possession is a mental illness and like other posters find the idea of possession quite absurd.

The only problem with having that particular belief is that when you hear horrific stories of people raping, killing and even eating children, you tend to ask, "how could anyone do something like this?", because you refuse to accept the real reasons why they do so.
Possession, or even simply influence, by Dark entities is a reality. These entities are fear based - they are just as easily scared as they scare others. That is the reason why when confronted by persons without fear, they submit to them, because they are actually scared of them.
The reason why the "experts" in the medical industry call it "mental illness", is because they have no explanation for it. The reason they have no explanation of it is because they have "guidelines" to follow, which basically means they're not allowed to come up with spiritual explanations for anything, only mental and physical.
This is precisely why we have hundreds of "causes of cancer". The real cause of cancer is the body's inability to regenerate it's own damaged cells correctly. But instead of the one condition that causes the body to do this, we are presented with what causes the damage to our body cells as the "cause". This is the only explanation the medical industry is allowed to present, because it has to be either mental or physical only.
If people would only accept that the spiritual world does indeed exist, we would get much clearer answers about conditions from the "experts".
The reason why information about the spirit world is suppressed, is because it's knowledge. And knowledge is power. And the rulers of this planet are well aware of this knowledge, but don't want the masses to know of it, because if we all do, they will lose their power over us completely.

[edit on 18/8/08 by NuclearPaul]

Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Originally posted by shihulud
I am of the position that so called demonic possession is a mental illness and like other posters find the idea of possession quite absurd.

The only problem with having that particular belief is that when you hear horrific stories of people raping, killing and even eating children, you tend to ask, "how could anyone do something like this?", because you refuse to accept the real reasons why they do so.
Possession, or even simply influence, by Dark entities is a reality.

So the real reasons for such acts are possession etc - simple as that eh? I'm sorry but I don't agree, there are many reasons why people commit such acts - products of environment, peer pressure, chemical imbalance etc etc. There is no need to invoke demons or dark entities to explain them.

These entities are fear based - they are just as easily scared as they scare others. That is the reason why when confronted by persons without fear, they submit to them, because they are actually scared of them.
The reason why the "experts" in the medical industry call it "mental illness", is because they have no explanation for it. The reason they have no explanation of it is because they have "guidelines" to follow, which basically means they're not allowed to come up with spiritual explanations for anything, only mental and physical.

So therefore it has to be demonic possession?

This is precisely why we have hundreds of "causes of cancer". The real cause of cancer is the body's inability to regenerate it's own damaged cells correctly. But instead of the one condition that causes the body to do this, we are presented with what causes the damage to our body cells as the "cause". This is the only explanation the medical industry is allowed to present, because it has to be either mental or physical only.

So demons cause cancer?

If people would only accept that the spiritual world does indeed exist, we would get much clearer answers about conditions from the "experts".
The reason why information about the spirit world is suppressed, is because it's knowledge. And knowledge is power. And the rulers of this planet are well aware of this knowledge, but don't want the masses to know of it, because if we all do, they will lose their power over us completely.

[edit on 18/8/08 by NuclearPaul]

There is no evidence 'that the spiritual world does indeed exist' nor for the existence of demons et al.

G

Seeing the before and after pictures made me think - if this happened now, we would all assume she was on ice - end of story...next

Signs of possession include things that are NOT humanly possible. It includes such things as: Speaking in a language unknown to the person possessed. Giving details about events and things that cannot possibly be known to the person possessed.

How does having a "mental illness" allow someone to speak a totally foreign language (figuratively and literally) to that person? How does having a "mental illness" allow a possessed person to speak in languages that haven't been spoken for thousands of years? How does "mental illness" allow a person to know details of what is transpiring hundreds of miles away at that exact instant? How does "mental illness" allow the person possessed to know intimate details of the lives of the people doing the exorcism?

In the past, people made the mistake of believing most things were "evil spirits". In the present, we make the mistake of thinking everything is "physical". What we need is a good SCIENTIFIC balance of the two.

Science has never been able to "prove" possession because they have never tried to prove it. You can't accomplish something if you don't try.

Also, think about this: Malachi Martin said that there were two types of possession, imperfect and perfect. The video listed here is an example of an imperfectly possessed person. Malachi Martin also said that when a person is perfectly possessed, they will fit in with society perfectly when they are required to do so.

If you think possession is "mental illness", find the details of what are considered the signs of possession, and see if you can duplicate them. Here is a partial list of things you can attempt to do to replicate what people who are possessed have been observed to do.

1) Speak totally fluently in a language you have never heard. Double bonus points if you speak in a language you didn't even know EXISTED.

2) Display knowledge of someone's past, including private details that only one or two people know.

3) Display knowledge of events that are transpiring someplace else at the exact time they are happening.

4) Create horrific and sickening smells without using chemicals, or other items.

5) Have a friend hide a religious object (cross, holy water, etc.) someplace, and you have to walk into the room and be able to say INSTANTLY that the object is both there, and where that object is.

6) Create marks, scratches, bruises, welts, or cuts on your body in full view of people, without using anything (knives, sharp objects, fingernails, etc.) that could be used in such a manner. In other words, make those things appear on bare flesh, without any known physical cause.

6A) Double points if it is words.

6B) Triple bonus points if it is in a language unknown to you.

7) Display fits of superhuman strength. Double points if you weigh less than 120 pounds, yet can throw 250 pound men around as if they were toys.

8) (Probably the creepiest to humans), speak with more than one voice at the same time.

9) Pick a part of your body, and cause it to swell, distend, or move in a way that is not physiologically possible.

All of the signs above can be exhibited in a person possessed. Of the above list, the only one that has been observed in merely "mentally ill" patients (or those on certain drugs) is #7, but in the event that a "regular" person does that, they will usually break bones, and rip tendons/ligaments in the process. Not so with people that are possessed.

Realize this: Only the very worst of the possessed people are ever exorcised. If you study the bible, Jesus exorcised demons from people that we would consider only "mentally ill" now. Notice also that in some of his healings, DEMONS caused the problem, and once he exorcised them, the physical problem went away. Other times, he merely healed the person. This would seem to indicate that there are problems in people caused by entities that do not have their own physical bodies, and that there are problems in people caused by purely physical causes.





[edit on 18-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Signs of possession include things that are NOT humanly possible. It includes such things as: Speaking in a language unknown to the person possessed. Giving details about events and things that cannot possibly be known to the person possessed.

How does having a "mental illness" allow someone to speak a totally foreign language (figuratively and literally) to that person? How does having a "mental illness" allow a possessed person to speak in languages that haven't been spoken for thousands of years? How does "mental illness" allow a person to know details of what is transpiring hundreds of miles away at that exact instant? How does "mental illness" allow the person possessed to know intimate details of the lives of the people doing the exorcism?

Some proof of evidence would be nice

In the past, people made the mistake of believing most things were "evil spirits". In the present, we make the mistake of thinking everything is "physical". What we need is a good SCIENTIFIC balance of the two.

How can you have a scientific notion of evil spirits? when science dismisses the supernatural

Science has never been able to "prove" possession because they have never tried to prove it. You can't accomplish something if you don't try.

There is no evidence for possession, thats why science dismisses it

Also, think about this: Malachi Martin said that there were two types of possession, imperfect and perfect. The video listed here is an example of an imperfectly possessed person. Malachi Martin also said that when a person is perfectly possessed, they will fit in with society perfectly when they are required to do so.

Oh yes, the so called expert on exorcisms and possession. Why should we take notice of his word when we don't take notice of anyone else's on the matter

If you think possession is "mental illness", find the details of what are considered the signs of possession, and see if you can duplicate them. Here is a partial list of things you can attempt to do to replicate what people who are possessed have been observed to do.

I can't replicate them as I don't have a mental illness, nor am I an expert on NLP and I haven't touched hallucinogens in a long time.

1) Speak totally fluently in a language you have never heard. Double bonus points if you speak in a language you didn't even know EXISTED.

Evidence????

2) Display knowledge of someone's past, including private details that only one or two people know.

Don't need to be possessed for this one - reports of this type have been around for years

3) Display knowledge of events that are transpiring someplace else at the exact time they are happening.

Again possession not required - Arthur C Clarke's books and TV shows were full of it

4) Create horrific and sickening smells without using chemicals, or other items.

Again possession not required - Derren Brown can do this sort of stuff

5) Have a friend hide a religious object (cross, holy water, etc.) someplace, and you have to walk into the room and be able to say INSTANTLY that the object is both there, and where that object is.

Why even a religious object - do you think that gives possession more credence? This can be done by street magicians

6) Create marks, scratches, bruises, welts, or cuts on your body in full view of people, without using anything (knives, sharp objects, fingernails, etc.) that could be used in such a manner. In other words, make those things appear on bare flesh, without any known physical cause.

Could be psychosomatic

6A) Double points if it is words.

6B) Triple bonus points if it is in a language unknown to you.

Evidence??

7) Display fits of superhuman strength. Double points if you weigh less than 120 pounds, yet can throw 250 pound men around as if they were toys.

So can people on PCP LOL - ever watch these police programs where it take about 6 of them to subdue the suspect???

8) (Probably the creepiest to humans), speak with more than one voice at the same time.

Evidence??

9) Pick a part of your body, and cause it to swell, distend, or move in a way that is not physiologically possible.

Just like the guy that could turn his head completely 180 degrees (Ripleys believe it or not)

All of the signs above can be exhibited in a person possessed. Of the above list, the only one that has been observed in merely "mentally ill" patients (or those on certain drugs) is #7, but in the event that a "regular" person does that, they will usually break bones, and rip tendons/ligaments in the process. Not so with people that are possessed.

As there is no such thing as possession then obviously they must be exhibited by regular people (albeit not quite with it people)

Realize this: Only the very worst of the possessed people are ever exorcised. If you study the bible, Jesus exorcised demons from people that we would consider only "mentally ill" now. Notice also that in some of his healings, DEMONS caused the problem, and once he exorcised them, the physical problem went away. Other times, he merely healed the person. This would seem to indicate that there are problems in people caused by entities that do not have their own physical bodies, and that there are problems in people caused by purely physical causes.

So some were mentally ill and the others were just ill - if jesus even existed, although didn't other people do the same things, so jesus wasn't that special .

Doesn't the bible state that its the person that possesses the demon and not the other way round (wiki demonic possession).


G