A mysterious skull

The skull

An usual skull has been found in New Zealand

Their research has shown the skull belonged to a European woman who lived about 270 years ago – a century before the first known arrival of white settlers in the country.

Hans,
you continue to keep digging up cool stuff


270 years old thet would put her death in the 1730's.

There were plenty if europeans wandering around the pacific in those days, spanish, dutch, english, portugese and the french all had people in the pacific.
I would say that she was the survivor of a that lost its way and was wrecked, either spanish, portugese, or dutch.
The spanish had the largest holdings in the pacific basin, and there was a lot of trade between the phillipines and central and south america.
The portugese and the dutch were exploring just to the north of australia.
If the dating is right then I believe that she will end up being portugese or dutch.
And another mystery of history.

Ho's know neither limits nor bounds,and will go anywhere to ply their wondrous trade.
Seriously, is there any type of radioactive mineral in that area? I seem to remember reading radioactivity has an effect on carbon dating.
Also, if I had a skull in my hand, I think I could come up with something more profound than "a death has occurred" as stated in the article.

Yep the Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, English and the odd Italian were traveling around the Pacific at that time. Identification of a skull is by IDing certain characters or parameters, if it fits certain parameters it has a good chance of belonging to x nationality or race.

The Polynesian, Japanese, Arabs, Chinese and South Asians, were also in the area of the Pacific and some of their populations can be mistaken for "white" people in some cases, especially Ainu, northern Chinese, Northern Indians, etc. You also had by this time people of mixed parentage who of course tend to straddle the lines of IDing.

So, either a mistaken identity or a clue to an interesting tale!

[edit on 8/8/08 by Hanslune]

Intriguing find. What else did they find with her, I wonder.

A reader of the story posted a question -- what if this body (or skull) was moved there from somewhere else? Physicians did have specimens of human bodies that they kept around (some of the ones in the "Body Worlds" exhibit are over 100 years old -- one infant skull appeared to be at least 300 years old.)

If JUST the skull is found with no other context, I would suspect that it might be an artifact from a grave robber, sold to a doctor or an occultist and brought to Australia after 1800 or so.

I hope we can get updates to the story.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Yep the Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, English and the odd Italian were traveling around the Pacific at that time. Identification of a skull is by IDing certain characters or parameters, if it fits certain parameters it has a good chance of belonging to x nationality or race.

The Polynesian, Japanese, Arabs, Chinese and South Asians, were also in the area of the Pacific and some of their populations can be mistaken for "white" people in some cases, especially Ainu, northern Chinese, Northern Indians, etc. You also had by this time people of mixed parentage who of course tend to straddle the lines of IDing.

So, either a mistaken identity or a clue to an interesting tale!

[edit on 8/8/08 by Hanslune]

Yes, no matter how it got there it is an interesting story.
There are structures on an asians skull that will clearly define it as such, not asian.
Cetainly not Ainu or other early indiginous people they also have distinctive cranial features.
Could be arab, but there is a pretty clear line that inducates the extent of muslim penetration into the south west pacific.Besides the fact I cant see any muslim sailors travelling with women that far out.
There werent any english or italian colonies in that part of the pacific at the time, and a voyage from europe to that part of the world was five years round trip, at least.
Your not going to find any women going along for the ride,you also have to remember that having a woman onboard was considered bad luck by sailors of the time.
The portugese and the dutch had established colonies in the south west pacific at the time, so I'm keeping keeping with my theory of a portugese or dutch settlers wife, whos ship got lost the wrecked.
So many ships never came back and nobody will ever really know what happend to them all.
There is also the possibillity, along the lines of byrd's comment, maybe the skull ended up there by itself, without the body.
If had been found a little farther north it would suspect the head was taken, there were still a lot of cannibals in the south pacific at that time.
And the head of the white man's woman might have been valuable enough to trade.

Interesting idea there Byrd. It could be a discarded medical item or curio too. Yep could be about anyone. Might be interesting to do a Strontium test and take a look at the teeth to see what nationalities type of dental work might show up (they had some interesting traits on how they worked).

Nothing like a good mystery!

OR it could be one of the abandoned Dr. Who assistants

Some more information on this story from the Hall of Ma'at

Mr Winter said that Captain Cook recorded, in the log of his second journey to New Zealand aboard the Resolution in 1772-5, a tale told to him by a Maori chief of a ship having been shipwrecked many years earlier.

Cook said the Maori told him that they given the ship's captain the name "Rongotute".

Early missionaries wrote of hearing the same story from Maori, who related that the survivors of the ship had been killed and eaten when they came ashore.

They said that many Maori had subsequently died in an epidemic, possibly as a result of exposure to a newly introduced infection from Europe.

The linkoid

Only one picture, and not a very good one at that, a top view.
This sort or thing always makes me think they are hiding something.

Is this a Cro-Magnon type that allegedly vanished 30,000 years or so ago.
How embarrassing for scientists if this is one of them.

I have seen it written that if they were alive today you could pass them on the street and not notice anything different about them.
HA HA , I don't think so. First they are large people up to 6'7" and built like we used to say, a brick outhouse.
Also they have a lower cranium - their eyes are not in the center of the head as ours are, and they have a large bulging occiput.

270 years old? How do they know that. Carbon dating can't be used for anything that "new".

Nova has an interactive view on line. YOu can turn the image 360 deg. I don't know what that is on the front that looks like an indent of a coin. I see that on others.
nova

Howdy Ohzone

Only one picture, and not a very good one at that, a top view.
This sort or thing always makes me think they are hiding something.

Hans: Hmmm building a conspiracy out of a new article. If "they" were hiding something there wouldn't have been a story. Who by the way would be "they"?

Is this a Cro-Magnon type that allegedly vanished 30,000 years or so ago.

Hans: Cro-Magnon? Is a term used for the oldest known skeletons of modern humans (Homo Sapiens) in Europe. Why would it be "embarrassing"? Why would you think modern humans disappeared thirty thousands years ago. We seem to still be here. Are you thinking of Neanderthals?

I have seen it written that if they were alive today you could pass them on the street and not notice anything different about them.
HA HA , I don't think so. First they are large people up to 6'7" and built like we used to say, a brick outhouse.

Hans: Ah no, you seem to be mixing Neanderthals, Homo Sapiens and a bit of giant mythology together - and AFAIK the average height is around 1.6 meters. i don't recall any over 1.85 but the height you mention is within the known human range.

Also they have a lower cranium - their eyes are not in the center of the head as ours are, and they have a large bulging occiput.

270 years old? How do they know that. Carbon dating can't be used for anything that "new".

Hans: The article doesn't say, so I won't speculate.



[edit on 9/8/08 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune



It looks like was right on in my assertion that it was likely a shipwreck.
But I was un-aware that the Maori practiced cannabalism.

Sources differ on whether they were cannibals. Most seem to suggest that they did so only on special occasions and that the habit had died out before the Europeans came but was revised to try and gain magical powers to defeat the colonalists.

Takal Makan / Tachla MacKan is a godd example of European anomalies . Unfortunately the vested interests have often destroyed evidence contrary to the current paradigm. Buddha in Nepal / Tibet is often portrayed as Blue Eyed . Rameses the second has blond hair. Easter Island had fair skinned people.The Ancient Gods of the Pacific and Meso America are often European ie. Kon Tiki , Viracocha , Manco Capac , Quetzal Coatl etc.

Probably these people were the remnants of a World wide Trading Empire.

www.celticnz.co.nz...
www.burlingtonnews.net...
www.pbs.org...
www.newworldcelts.org...

Saying that there are many Black skinned Gods through out the world as well. It's all very interesting.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by DimensionIntrusion]

Howdy DI

Some comments

Takal Makan / Tachla MacKan is a godd example of European anomalies .

Hans: Do you mean the cities in the desert or the earlier nomad tombs of Cacausians found in central Asia? Yep those were proto-Europeans.

Unfortunately the vested interests have often destroyed evidence contrary to the current paradigm.

Hans: Care to explain what that means?

Buddha in Nepal / Tibet is often portrayed as Blue Eyed.

Hans: He was probably a descendent of what use to be called the Indo-Europeans who had invaded India thousands of years ago. He was also a nobleman in a societal caste system that did not ‘officially’ intermarry with native populations. It may also be an additional attribute given to him after the fact. As blue, as in blue skins, is a sign of many Hindu Gods.

Rameses the second has blond hair.

Hans: His painting don't show that, if you are thinking of his mummy the mummification process changes the color of the hair.

Easter Island had fair skinned people.

Hans: Not until the Europeans showed up. They may have been lighter skinned Polynesians. Probably just legends.

The Ancient Gods of the Pacific and Meso America are often European ie. Kon Tiki , Viracocha , Manco Capac , Quetzal Coatl etc.

Hans: That's the myth the reality is different. Ah some of your links claim that the Maori are actually ancient Celts.....DNA seems to disprove that and the Maori came into NZ centuries after Celts ceased to be (culturally becoming the Breton, Welsh etc)