Obama's bloodbath ban on semi automatic rifles,shotguns and pistols.

reply to post by XTexan

---

What else was in that bill that he supported?
I promise you it wasnt just about 1 per month.

But even so, supporting 1 per month isnt BANNING guns.

In the end though - who is easier to believe, if you come into an argument like this with an unbiased attitude?

People who record Obama's words and his voting record

or people who post anti-obama rhetoric like "obama is a muslim" and support ideas that say obama is the antichrist



i think common sense speaks for its self.
Allowing anyone at any time to own any kind fo gun they want is a recipe for disaster.

reply to post by Illahee

---

You make me laugh.

My opinion about the post is that its a lie. you are telling lies, and i post facts to prove it.

And you whine



If you'd just read the article i posted - you'd see that you are wrong, and the OP is wrong. And the article you post in your OP is wrong.

Our cook the books er I mean links poster is using sanitized cambaign information links. Lets look at ALL of the facts then get back on topic.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.
FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions.

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.

OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.
Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

Now I am not going to chase down all the links to further derail this topic. I am going to lodge a complaint against the one derailing and I will provide those links at that time.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Illahee]

reply to post by Illahee

---

Two funny things about that list you provide us

1.) It doesnt list a single source of credibility.

2.) the person who posted it on page 2 of this thread, completely plagiarized it from an outside source
From here

(since you seem to be a vigilante for enforcement of the T&C, why arent you crying for a 3 day ban for plagiarism?)


So that being said: How can you trust the words of someone who

A.) Can't provide proof to back their claims (the person who actually created this list)

and

B.) The person who plagiarizes someone else's work and still cannot have enough decency to atleast plagiarize someone else's work in order to support his original copied post.


[edit on 8/10/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

[edit on 8/10/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Illahee

---

furthermore, there is nothing santitized about issues2000.org

its completely non-partisan

you'd know that if you actually looked. You woudl know what obama really said if you actually read it, and stopped letting disgruntled hillary supporters tell you what to think.

The terms 'reckless' and 'bankrupt' are matters of opinion and complete sensationalism. and yet....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this and yet....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this
No he hasnt. and yet....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this
Yes he does, in his own opinion. Legally and politically speaking, he supports the idea that states and city governments should be allowed to decide for themselves ... visit the links i've provided. Its all there.
The first part is true. He voted as a STATE senator to do so. The second part is a lie. and yet....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this
.....so? Whats the big deal? and yet....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this only in certain circumstances. and yet....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this and yet....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this
Whats so bad about that? By this logic - why dont we go ahead and build a few prisons near the playground?
Why should they? If you have nothing to hide, whats the big deal? To flip this on the conservatives - americans dont' know when they're being illegally wiretapped in the name of security - how is this any different? Just because its not a conservative preaching it, doesnt make it wrong.



So...you're against the idea of gun bans.
But you're also against the idea of allowing legal adults to legally obtain a gun? That confuses me.

First off....no link given to anything that backs this up? I havent seen anything that would even remotely suggest this.

Second off, lets drop the double standards. Your sensationalism is beside you.







The rest of the list is lies as well. No proof to back up anything, and furthmore, the entire post comes from some one else's work

Original documentation here

Even though i dont agree with the article, i do believe in giving credit where it is due.

Why should you believe the word of someone who can't back up their words with fact?

Furthermore, why should you believe the words fo someone who doesnt have the decency to provide us with a link to attribute credit to the person who spent the time to type it all out, regardless of actual factual content?


[edit on 8/10/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

I am unsure what else is in that Bill, if you know the name of the Bill I may be able to look it up however...



No... but it is taking action on the Federal level... Also if this was a law regarding any other Constitutional rights... i.e. limiting free speach to 1 instance per month Im sure you would feel differently. A Constitutional right, no matter what it is, should not be limited.



Though I havent read the entire post, I dont think anyone on this post, right now, is saying any of that...



There was no gun control in our past and I dont see this disaster you speak of...

You sir are a mental incompetent. You have accused me of a crime in a public forum (plagiarism) and have slandered my good standing.

Here is the solid evidence that proves your false accusation and slander. You may find legal action in your future. Stay tuned.

www.nraila.org...


Moderators please review the accusations of crime against me, and the constant derailment of this thread.


Further More:

I believe I may reproduce this content as stated on their site:

Copyright 2008, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Illahee]

reply to post by Illahee

---

The person you quoted is the one who plagiarized. I was very clear about that.

Thanks for the good laugh

Legal action?

seriously....


you're wrong. Stop being so upset about it, and jsut admit that you're wrong.

Barack Obama has said, numerous times, he supports local state governments to decide fro themselves.

Now the burden is on local state governments.

Go "sue" them

[edit on 8/10/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Now you are saying the NRA-ILA is plagerizing?

PaLEEEZE. I will email them for you.

reply to post by Illahee

---

Why are you derailing your thread?

Did you visit the link i provided? It doesnt come from the NRA. But you wouldnt know that since you didnt visit the link.

If the NRA came out with it originally - fine, so be it. But its still plagiarism if no credit is given to the author in a separate medium (IE: ATS)


while we're on the discussion:



You threaten me with something as laughable as legal action?

Whats going to be your story to the judge

"But but but, he called someone else a plagiarizer!!"

- Judge "Well...did they provide a link to the origianl author?"

"no"

- Judge "then he's a plagiarizer"




Seriously.

Stop derailing your own thread.

Barack Obama supports local and state governments deciding.

That is my opinion on the OP you posted, and the post you outline in your OP for reference.

Care to discuss facts? Or is sensationalism the path of this thread?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

here's a link regarding Obama and his stance on the Assault Weapons Ban. Seems to me like he is supporting the FEDERAL ban of Assault Weapons, as apposed to saying it is a states rights issue...

Obama on Assault Weapons Ban

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

He never says that he supports local state governments to decide,. He says that people have right to bear arms because of supreme court decision but then he says state or local governments also have right to put constraints on guns.
He didn't say I will let the State or local government decide. You are reading into what he said and making an assumption as to what he means.

Show me black and white where he directly says he will let the state and local government decide and he will take no action as President.

reply to post by jam321

---

and since i dont believe in plagiarism... Source


I dont have to "read into" anything

he said it. You have to look past the sensationalism to see his words

Its clear as day.

Does he support "no gun bans"?

No.


Does he support "ban all guns" as the OP tries to point out?

no. He doesnt.

Thats all im saying.

What I see is Obama supporting the abridgement of a Constitutional right. Who passes that Bill does not matter. My opinion is that even if it does get left up to the states, it is still a Constitutional right, and our president should step in when/if a state passes a law which goes against said right. The more I read the more I think Obama would stand aside and allow said right to be shredded.

Also you have not addressed his support of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban... Its a FEDERAL gun ban that he supports... thats 2 strikes in 1 sentence...

reply to post by XTexan

---

Perhaps we're both too blinded by our own beliefs to see whats really going on?

perhaps your'e right and im wrong. I really dont know at this point. Im pretty sure i know what Obama said based on what i read.

To me, when i read what you linked to, this is the argument i see obama making

(i use a different...example...to draw a parallel)

"I believe abortion is morally wrong, but i support a woman's choice to do it"

in other words

"i think gun bans are needed, but i support local governments to decide for themselves."

Thats how i see what he's saying.

Again, could be biased on my part, who knows?

But it could also be biased on your part for seeing it in a negative light, too

[edit on 8/10/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

I am trying to be open minded here, though as you stated, we may both be blinded by our own beliefs...

I am a firm believer in the Constitution, and it is difficult for me to agree on this...

When Obama say he supports gun control I hear "I support the abridgement of the 2nd amendment."

When I hear that he would support the states in a gun ban I hear "I support those who would try to abridge the 2nd amendment."

I like to think that if you substitute the 1st amendment into a statement about any other amendment, and it sounds sinister it probably is. I mean, if he had said "I support the abridgement of the 1st amendment" or "I support those who would try to abridge the 1st amendment", then we would all be singing a different tune wouldnt we?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

yes you are. He doesn't say the following.

I Obama believe that local and state government should make decisions on gun control issues NOT the federal government.

in the sentence that says "But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right" where does Obama say I. He doesn't.

He does favor federal involvement according to his plan.



source

If he favored second Amendment commonsense would tell him to go after the criminals and leave the law abiding ones alone.

How many more laws do we need to keep guns away from criminals? Commonsense is to enforce the ones you have.

Now we include the kids. Too vague how he will protect the kids. Loopholes-never specifies what he considers a loophole.
If it is expired that means it would have to go back through congress which means it won't be same bill.

reply to post by XTexan

---

I guess when talking about the first amendment, second amendment, etc

there are laws that exist based on religious preference.

There are laws that exist based on gun control.

I believe in Gun control because im not a criminal, and i have the legal right to own a gun (thats not an accusation to anyone here, not calling anyone a criminal)

Im just saying: i have nothing to worry about.

Will i in the future? Not if Obama is president, in my opinion.

A president can only accomplish what the people of this country will allow.

IF obama is elected and tries to take away our guns by taking advantage of a democratically controlled congress + democratic presidency, i know that the people of this country won't let it happen.

So for me, its this:

Take him at his word.
If he goes back on his word, and tries to do the outlandish things this OP suggests, he wont get away with it.

He CANT get away with it.

I take comfort in both facts

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

On the same token:
I do not believe in Gun control because im not a criminal, and i have the Constitutional right to own a gun.

As far as the laws that exist on religious preference and gun control, I would have to read into the law to comment on how I feel on them... IMHO a lot of our rights are already being eroded away, but thats a whole different topic

I do agree that it would be tough for Obama to pull this off, as the public would be "up in arms" (pun intended)

Also even with a democraticly control congress he would still have issues doing it, what with southern democrats and all...