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reply posted on 20-8-2008 @ 09:53 PM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by zorgon
Both to Zorgon, and to Asty.....( funny as can be, both of you )
Thanks!!
See,now I have to not only clean my keyboard, I have to buy my roommate a NEW dern keyboard!!!
Whatever that is.....
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reply posted on 20-8-2008 @ 09:54 PM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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Do you know how many times i've been accused of being a paid Obama spokes person?
I guess that means i do a good job of arguing my point...i don't know.
I promise you - if i got paid to do this ... you'd know 
I admit its hard not to get really mad when someone pulls out their big guns
but when set back and realize that this is the "biggest guns" in their own personal arsenal
you can laugh at this person, and take solace in the fact that everyone else see's them exactly the way you do 
As a moron.
No better gratification IMO
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reply posted on 20-8-2008 @ 10:25 PM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
Andrew...IF I GOT paid to do this, I would not be doing this.....because, beleive me, I could be getting much better pay, somewhere else!!!
In fact....I do....so.........
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reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 09:52 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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reply to post by weedwhacker
thats the main reason i said
I promise you - if i got paid to do this ... you'd know
Of course you can always just do it for free
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reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 08:52 PM by weedwhacker
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reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 09:38 PM by AlienCarnage
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I think everyone who posts on any forum anywher that quotes from an external source is a potential DISINFO agent. All it takes is posting something
that seems accurate that later turns out to be just the opposite. This is now disinformation that the individual has leaked. Where someone may not be
paid to be a DISINFO agent, this does not keep them from accidentally being one. Yes, some people do it on purpose, but I believe there are fewer of
those than the accidental ones.
Now the question I have for you all is, is this accurate information or am I being a DISINFO agent and giving you good info mixed with bad to confuse
the issue? 
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reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 09:46 PM by jpm1602
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I'm slovak, polish, hungarian, and austrian. I live to disinfo and spread my carnage.
As the Brain said to pinky, tomorrow we take over the world!
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reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 10:19 PM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by jpm1602
It's BB, and I think I can rightly say....that anyting goes!!
For all to know, and understand, I appreciate all of the comments!
What a joy, and pleasure....to see some good humor, in these times.....
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reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 10:28 PM by jpm1602
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Cheers WW. God only knows we can use some laughs in this day and age. Want you to know, you always crack me up. 
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reply posted on 22-8-2008 @ 01:47 AM by meadowfairy
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Somettimes it makes me think why people have discussions that end up being confusing, ignored,attacked etc etc. Then i realised that people always
defend their own beliefs anyway. Then if you want them to listen to you there is no chance in hell they will turn themselves aorund to understand you
anyway so you have to live with being ignorant and keeping to yourself again.
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reply posted on 22-8-2008 @ 01:51 AM by dAlen
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Weed, Im not sure who cares what you are...I dont mean that in a negative way at all.
Words can sound rough written - so I had to clarify that Im not meaning anything negative at all.
The fact is, if people think you are - then you to them you are...the very fact you posting this thread will not change anyones mind.
Not sure what this had to do with board business...
Peace
dAlen
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:27 AM by fmcanarney
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Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation Top
Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation Top
Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo
artist to apply. These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the criminal conspiracy or
conspiracy to cover up.
1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor,
etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.
2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical
of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.
3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations.
Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way
the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify
it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.
[add: Use the derogatory terms 'space beams' and 'rabid no-planers', then associate these with the terms 'wild accusations' and 'ad hominem
attacks'. (JW, 2007)]
4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and
the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent
arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to
debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
[add example: 'But space beams don't explain the presence of sulfur', (JW, 2007)]
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify
as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists',
'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink
from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
[add: Use names like 'rabid no-planers', 'space beams', 'space beamers'. (JW, 2007)]
6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be
fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new
identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues,
and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.
7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other
bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to
illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:32 AM by fmcanarney
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Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation Top
Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation Top
Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo
artist to apply. These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the criminal conspiracy or
conspiracy to cover up.
9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any
sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
[add example: "I haven't seen any evidence of pulverization on Judy Wood's web site." (JW, 2007)]
10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man -- usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will
make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily
contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency
plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as
simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.
11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor
that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply
greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the
nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning
up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.
12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the
entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to
address the actual issues.
[add example: 'Thermite is available on ebay and it is untracable, so I guess we'll never know who did it." (JW, 2007)]
13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic which forbears any actual
material fact.
14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues
qualifying for rule 10.
[add example: 'Exactly how much energy would be required to pulverize the WTC Towers?' The authors of the DEW paper are asked this on a regular
basis as if there is a question as to whether or not the WTC was destroyed. But, those with other theories who ask this question feel no need to
answer the same question themselves. (JW, 2007)]
15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.
[add: Show a photo of a toasted car on FDR Drive and then emphasize how well "thermite fits the data". (JW, 2007)]
16. Vanish evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.
[add: We are frequently reminded to pine for the evidence we don't have (the missing steel) instead of looking at the evidence we do have (photos).
(JW, 2007)]
17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or
controversial comments in hopes o
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:35 AM by fmcanarney
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17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or
controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue'
with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional
responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will
you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by
then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be
presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may
exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to
completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that
witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
[add example: Thermite cannot explain the cylindrical holes in WTC6 and the toasted cars, so that data must be ignored. (JW, 2007)]
20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful
tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the
facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
[add example: 'We have new data (from mysterious and secret samples and test methods) that show strong evidence of possible ___'. (JW, 2007)]
21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize
all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance,
if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed and unavailable to subsequent
investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the
guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.
22. Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via
scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so
authoritatively.
[add example: 'If not able to take over 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth,' then start a new group, 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice' and establish a
new "truth." (But, isn't truth its own defense?)]
23. Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of
unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.
[add example: Why would a group of folks want to destroy the organization, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and drag it out for many months with multiple
emails a day proposing endless negotiations with no intention of following through on any of them? (JW, 2007)
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:36 AM by fmcanarney
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24. Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the
need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of theircharacter by release of
blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.
[add example: Murder the student of a prominent 9/11 researcher. (JW, 2007)]
25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate
the kitchen. .
Text
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:45 AM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by fmcanarney
fm, yeah we've all seen that before.
Here's a suggestion.....let's see how many of those 25 or so ideas can be seen in .....political debates, Fox 'news', Rush Limbaugh, Bill
"O'Really"....etc, etc, etc.
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 01:29 PM by Yarcofin
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Not that I believe there are any disinfo agents on ATS, but I think the best kind of hiding is "out in plain sight"... why would any individual make
a giant attention-grabbing post declaring themself not a disinfo agent unless they had a guilty conscience? Of course you could always be an unknowing
disinfo agent if someone else is giving you disinformation and unknowingly filtering it through you. Paranoia FTW.
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 01:35 PM by bloodsearch
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reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:14 PM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by Yarcofin
Hello, Yarco.....(cuter cat, by the way)
Um.....here's the thing....(several, actually):
I have an ability to type, since I learned how to in High School back in 1971
I also have a pretty good concept of spelling, and a fair vocabulary....but when I need help, I can use 'spellcheck' and an online 'thesauus'
I was getting pretty tired of people claiming I was some sort of 'paid' disinfo, when I sit here and do it for free....just because I can engage
intelligently with others.
AND....please note where I put this thread. I get nothing in term of 'ATS points', but I do get some satisfaction out of knowing that certain
people understand my gist.
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reply posted on 24-8-2008 @ 01:30 PM by zorgon
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
I was getting pretty tired of people claiming I was some sort of 'paid' disinfo, when I sit here and do it for free....
Well I'll be hornswaggled...
Thanks for making that clear...
So its merely a question of money... not the deed
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