Government owes American Indians $456 mln: judge

reply to post by EverythingYouDespise



Yea, that`s it, lets restart a war that`s been over for a hundred years or more. That sure is smart. The American indians aren`t as stupid as you may think they are. And just what was it that we gave them that was so great? Poverty, low paying jobs, to no jobs at all? Try walking in their shoes for a while, see how much you like it. I think what they are doing with casinos is great, and if you think that is putting the shaft to us, well, I call it an eye for an eye, we shaft them, they shaft us. Oh, and if you think about it for a while, our IRS is a money gathering branch of the Federal Reserve, which in turn goes against the constitution. We are not to have a banking system that is privately owned, so that makes what our government is doing illegal.

American Indians will repossesses America

obrag.org...

To get back to the garden that existed before Europeans ravaged their lands, Native Americans are cultivating with an unnatural resource-casino riches. Across the country, Native American tribes are snapping up property with the cash that’s flowing in from slot machines, blackjack tables and roulette wheels. Last year, tribal gaming revenue hit $27 billion. Since Native Americans won the right to build casinos on their reservations in 1988, the lucrative business has caught fire. Of the 562 federally recognized tribes, about 220 have gaming operations. And they’re using their newfound fortune to invest in land for housing, businesses, farming, hunting and fishing grounds, grazing lands for cattle and buffalo-or simply returning it to the wild. With earnings from its Wildhorse Resort and Casino, the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservations in northeast Oregon spent $20 million to acquire roughly 30,000 acres, about a third of which they are returning to its natural conditions, said Bill Tovey, the tribe’s director of economic development. Part of the grounds harbor plants and roots the nation uses for ceremonial purposes. “If you don’t have land, you don’t have culture,” he said. “You don’t own your destiny.”

reply to post by EverythingYouDespise


This has nothing to do with "a bunch of Indians that can't get over their own history", and Everything to do with our goverment paying them the money that they are owed.

Just what exactly is it that they have that they should be happy for ?

What other nations would do, has nothing to do with our nation. They almost were wiped out.

Why exactly would there be any military action against the reservations ? Do you actually think before you post ?

"The strong did what they could and the weak suffered what they must" - Thucydides.

I don't mean to sound mean, but so what? Land was taken from them because they couldn't defend it. In the course of history, this is NOT NEW. Should the Turks start making reparations to the Greeks because they migrated into Greek Asia Minor? What about the French (as the Franks) into the Roman Empire? Or any other ethnic group that move from one place to another? Of course not.

You can't judge history by today's moral standards, because they didn't operate by the same ones. I am sick and tired of liberal guilt.

It's not like they were even doing anything productive. They didn't even have metalworking!

When Pocahontus came to London, she was overawed at the power of our civilization, and knew her own could never compete, because they lived in teepee's for #'s sake! I'm sure they aren't complaining about the electricity, permanent buildings and the ability to live in the developed world now, are they? None of these things would be possible if history had not taken place like it did.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


So, what your saying is, free will means nothing. They have to live by our standards and dare not evolve at their own pace then? Who are we to take their way of living away from them?

Originally posted by FiatLux
reply to post by C.C.Benjamin

 

So, what your saying is, free will means nothing. They have to live by our standards and dare not evolve at their own pace then? Who are we to take their way of living away from them?

No, what I'm saying is: that's life. Some win, some lose. In this case, they lost. It was the way of life. Free will is nothing to do with this argument.

Life is about competition. If you are left behind in the technological race, a more powerful civilization will replace your own. I'm not even sure what the Native American's had even counts as civilization, just a culture.

As I said, you can't judge by our moral standards, because they did not exist back then.

We spend so much time mentally punishing ourselves about things that were perfectly acceptable back then (there are pre-columbian massacre sites, natives slaughtering natives - they weren't angels). We should remember that we were the ones who put an end to these atrocities as well! We should be patting ourselves on the back, not harping on about how we should feel so damn bad about everything.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


you say we cant judge by modern standards so what we did to them was ok. yet when talking about native tribes killing each other you call them atrocities and say we should be patting our selves on the back for stopping that . so what is it we can judge based on today's standards or we cant your sending out a mixed message. when they kill each other its bad but when invaders give them poisoned food, and diseased blankets and then attack and kill them its ok because it happened along time ago. that my friend is Hypocrisy

Face it, you owe them alot more than what they were even asking for. You won't even have the money to pay them what they will be awarded eventually especially after you escalate the fighting in the middle east and get involved with what is happening in Georgia and on and on. You are killing your own poor, elderly, debt ridden and homeless even as I post this just to fund the over extended greed of the few in the right position to call the shots in your country. The same thing is happening in my country right now. You don't even want to properly protect your Southern border because the majority of your best men and women are being sent to the wrong place for the wrong reasons.

reply to post by krill



It`s not only hypocrisy, it`s a sin. For when you take away their free will to evolve at their own pace, you stop their evolution back to the creator. It`s the greatest sin of all.

reply to post by FiatLux


well im not Christian im a Pagan so as far as it being a sin is concerned I don't really care. all I know is that I have native American ancestors, Lumbee mainly. and what the settlers did was damn close to genocide hell some of the tribes that were around then aren't even around any longer do to being killed and forced on to reservations where they became intermixed with other tribes. but it is Hypocrisy to use a double standard and say its ok for the settlers to kill as many natives as they could but the native tribes warring and killing each other is morally wrong. by that logic the British killing Americans during the revolution was ok but Americans killing the British was wrong.

reply to post by krill


I`m not a Christian or a Pagan, but I do believe in a creator and evolving back to him/her. To each their own.

Originally posted by xmotex
Funny, but Canada didn't wipe them off the map.

The Australians didn't kill off the remaining Aborigines.

Plenty of native populations in Brazil, etc.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.

[edit on 8/8/08 by xmotex]

Yep, In many places Native tribes still exist.

Although in some places they are still threatened by western expansion, like the Yanomami

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
"The strong did what they could and the weak suffered what they must" - Thucydides.

It's not like they were even doing anything productive. They didn't even have metalworking!

When Pocahontus came to London, she was overawed at the power of our civilization, and knew her own could never compete, because they lived in teepee's for s sake! I'm sure they aren't complaining about the electricity, permanent buildings and the ability to live in the developed world now, are they? None of these things would be possible if history had not taken place like it did.

This has nothing to do with their land being stolen away from them, nor does it have to do with liberal guilt. Plain and simple it has to do with our goverment giving them the money that they owe them for mismanaging the money that was placed in a trust for them, for the use of THEIR land.


I can not believe that you actually said that. What happened to them was ok because they were not productive and didn't have metal working?! They weren't productive by who's standards, your's?! They were productive enough for their own society and that's all that counts. People have a right to base their own productivity on their own needs, and standards, not the standards of the rest of the world. It was ok to almost wipe out an entire race of people, steal their land, try to destroy their culture and send them to go live on reservations where they continued to be treated like crap, because they didn't have metal working!!!


Who cares what they lived in, they lived free!!! They lived how they wanted to live. What did the nomadic European tribes live in before they settled down into permanant cities ? Living in teepees makes them less than human, with no rights?


And since you obviously aren't aware of it not all Indians were nomadic and lived in teepees. I believe it was the Pueblo indians that carved their houses into the sides of mountains, it was very similar to an apartment complex. I believe it was the Iriquois (spelling?) indians that lived in staionary long houses, and had a form of democracy.

How do you know that they aren't complaining about electricity, permanant buildings, and living in a developed world, did you ask them, every single one of them?

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


The native American Indians had agriculture, they were organized into a diverse division of labour, they had a social hierarchy, and some of them even settled into cities, even the nomadic tribes settled into to cities for a time, they brought their cities with them when they moved.

They even had laws within their own tribes and medical people to tend to their health needs, imagine that so yes what they had was considered a civilization.

Again this has nothing to do with the atrocities that were carried out against these people. It has to do with money that is owed to them by our goverment due to the fact that our goverment mishandled their money. If you had your money in a bank and they mishandled it and lost your money wouldn't want them to be held responsible for your money and made to give it back to you?

reply to post by Scorched Earth


Well, black slaves were sold to slave traders by there tribal leaders.....With the Indians, we just kinda came in and started to herd/kill them, and then confined them to reservations....So i believe there a little more deserving than blacks, because for one.....the govt didnt go over and get slaves, private companies and citizens bought and sold them, if anything the blacks need to thank the US govt for abolishing slavery to begin with.

Thats just my .02$ on the whole situation though...

I personally think it is time for the U.S. to fish or cut bait in regards to these indian reservation. If they are free independent nations then they need to be free independent nations. What does this mean? This means that they should be allowed to control the country in which there reservation is in. Means that these citizens should NOT be given duel citizenship, which by american standards is not allowed. It means that they should not recieve american benefits such as welfare, medicare, medicaid, road construction, police protection, etc. They need to be a nation, we should setup border checkpoints just like if we were to cross over to canada. As americans, we recieve NO taxes from these people, because of this, why are they entitled to anything from America? Because of past autrocities? How long should america continue to pay for this. No, the indians on the reservations should be allowed to determine there own future, fully and completly. This is the pro's and con's of having a nation. These people on the reservation should be given the right to live free and unfettered COMPLETELY by the U.S. I personally would like to see the reservations granted complete nation status recognized by the U.N. Let there taxes pay for there people. Let there people grow and prosper of fail miserably because of the actions of there leaders. NOT the American leaders.

Just my 2 cents,

Camain

reply to post by EverythingYouDespise


sound's like you've been watching to many john wayne films. And speaking of the past , the military action in conjunction with germ warfare was exaclty what the goverment did in the past

how about we stop sending money to all those overseas charity cases and spend some of it for the charity cases incountry??
sure..give some to the blacks, the indians...and..
i think that is the only two groups with their hand out asking for reparations..

i do not believe the irish are begging to be paid back for the way they were treated when they came here (look it up)
or the mexicans for the way they were "repatriated" back in the 30's (look it up)
or the Japanes for the way they were imprisoned during ww2 (look it up).

nope that is it ..the blacks and the injuns...

America does need to stop sending money over seas. It is not the responsibility of the american tax payer to take care of the world. Let them starve, or learn how to be self sufficient. Until America gets its boat in order it doesn't need to be shipping anything anywhere else. This include finalizing the issue of the reservations. Let them be nations, or let them be citizens and pay taxes like the rest of us.

Camain

reply to post by camain


Ignorance. It can be far more tough for people in other countries whose lands are ravaged by the U.S.'s industrial machine or bullied by militias raping and murdering there people.

Not all men are created equal. Not all men are given a fair chance. Not all men have easy lives. Help your fellow man.