Russian tanks 'rolling into Georgian breakaway'

reply to post by kosmicjack

China's proudest moment usurped by their "best frienemy"

oh my.. that's the best description of the Chinese Russian Love Hate relationship to date!

Kosovo proved to be nothing..
Ossetia will prove to be nothing.

Russia will go in, Georgia will back out, and Russian/Georgian peace-keepers will take over again..

And then ........ during this winter ... Russia will cut the gas pipelines to Georgia, again, and kill more Georgians in retaliation .. quite like last year. Oh, no .. wait .. Putin said that was an accident..

djerwulfe

Couldn't agree with you more, well put. It can best be displayed in the American/Israeli relationship that some would call secretive, evil, all about Joos taking over the World.. yada yada .. you know the drill ..

Instead of actually understanding Middle Easter politics and history, Israel being a fortified island of Democracy and Western agenda in the middle of Soviet/Russian leaning region of the World.. neither side of which took much ground.. Russia got the hearts and minds of the fanatics and under-dogs.. America got Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Israel.. Russia got.. Armenia (by force) and Egypt.

Anyways, it's all about geopolitics and resource control.. we took over the ME and kicked Russia out.. just like we support Taiwan to stop China from drilling undersea oil fields .. oh snap .. I mean, to spread democracy and .. ya what ever

manson_322


No country will use nukes. Ever. Assured Mutual Destruction .. hence Proxy Wars.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


that region was part of georgia by international agreement when the USSR broke up, no?

and by the way, there's another very similar situation brewing in Ukraine, in Donboss.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
I would like to clear something up here:

The Russians have every right to defend themselves and their Republics.

THEIR republics? The USSR is no more and no republic???!!!! needs to bow to mother russia again and russia needs to get OVER it. what the hell is this you're spewing? god i feel like this topic is bizarro world.

oops forgot i said i wasn't coming back. now i remember why.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by ~Lucidity]

I think that everyone's desire to be siding with the "Good Guy" against the "Bad Guy" has brought a lot of fuzz to the topic.

The reality is, there are no "Good Guys" in this situation.

Russia: Somebody else said something about Russia starting a war. No, untrue: Georgia started a war. But what Russia is doing, is intervening in another sovereign country's civil war (And don't bring U.S. actions into this, my opinions on that are irrelevant here.) All of you people saying Russia is justified in helping South Ossetia would cry foul and scream 'till your heads popped if it were China going after Taiwan and the U.S. intervened on Taiwan's behalf - and you freakin' know it.

Georgia: People are saying that Georgia is the aggressor and is acting as a U.S. puppet state. I call bull! Show me some communications between the U.S. and Georgia along the lines of, "Hey, do you think you guys could start a major military conflict against our most powerful rival that we'll almost certainly get drawn into at some point? We'd like to try and stretch our forces a little bit thinner." Think about it for a second people! Yes, Georgia started this war. They are entitled to use force to reunite their country. Problem is, genocide and launching your attack in the middle of your own cease-fire aren't exactly the operations of a "good country" either.

Friends, this war is merely a big bully beating up on a little bully for picking on the big bully's friend. No good guys. Stop acting like there is.

reply to post by djerwulfe


Blah Blah Blah Get your facts straight... Georgia was the one to attack first and not Russia... Russian forces rolling to back up the Peacekeepers...

You seem to talk a lot like you know whats going on... why dont you turn your eyes to Iraq/Iran situation... yeah thought so... justify that... "War on terror" My A**... Georgia is a puppet country for US... this time Georgia went a bit too far killing 1000s of people... they will pay... that simple... just like 9/11...

oh and by the way... I lived most of my life in Georgia... I know what I am talking about...

reply to post by Kryties


You think this is the story here? Think again. Try to google map the area and notice how much is missing. Also note the sanctions against iran were up'ed today. Note that US military now has an excuse to fly into the area to move georgia troops in claiming to want to get our people out. I would bet a good sat image of the area will not be availible for some time. Use your head people!!! Our government is up to it again. Do you really think that we have 2,000 people there for nothing?
Also the timing and news distraction of a democratic senator is getting all the news time now at the start of the games. Just dig a little and you will see what i see. I can't prove it yet but i would put money we started this with perfect timming.

Hey, Russia's spy ring started it, they were found out in Russia, and Georgia and Russia fought over that, and then they got the big guns out, in a more literal way than every enjoyable....

Well, with the 30k army of the G's vs the... what? 1 million of the Russians?

They don't need to send much at all, do they...

Well, that would be true, except that the only land supply route will be blocked by winter, and if Georgia blocks it, Georgia will be fine until the demorcrazy gets stuff done.

If NATO goes in, we can be looking at 2,255,000 army of China + 1,237,000 Russia + 545,000 Iran + 1,106,000 N Korea, vs US and allies.
At least we'll get these : cdn-www.cracked.com...
Hell, WWI was because some nut shot some duke guy nobody knows.

Why not this thing? Bad luck seems pretty sucky enough.


Everything is a lie, and demorcrazy is extinct, and it was extinct since the Greeks.

reply to post by flatfoot


I just looked up Georgia on google maps and you can't you see the cities in Georgia but you can everywhere else! That is crazy! Great find flatfoot! Starred!

Yes, the Google Map thing is really weird, isn't it? Hmm.

Some more bits and pieces from the Associated Press.


AP Photo/TV

South Ossetia fighting risks wider war

DZHAVA, Georgia (AP) -- Russia sent an armored column into the breakaway enclave of South Ossetia after Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, launched an offensive to crush separatists. Georgia reported early Saturday that warplanes attacked three of its bases and some key oil facilities.

Witnesses said hundreds of civilians have died in the fighting, which threatened to ignite a wider war between Georgia and Russia and escalate tensions between Moscow and Washington.

"I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. "It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."

(Article from AP)

Breaking update from Sky News TV: REUTERS - Russia announces that it will send more troops into Georgian region.

Our government is up to it again. Do you really think that we have 2,000 people there for nothing?

Our 2000 people left and the Georgia government is asking for them back, surely wouldn't be enough anyway.

Google is anti-US, so if you think the government can get Google to phase out satellite images of Georgia, you're wrong.

Georgia was provoked into a skirmish by Russia in the break-away province. Russia's long-term goal is to get all the 15 Republics back of the former Soviet Union.

Russia has a major dislike for the Georgian government and don't want them spreading democracy in the region.

There's one other thing to consider here. Georgia is the #3 country in the Coalition right now, behind only the US and the UK. They've got roughly 2k troops in Iraq right now. That won't be forgotten by the current US administration.

Forgive the wikipedia link. It was the most recent list that I could find.
Coalition troops

I've also "heard" that the Georgians have requested C-130s from the US to assist them in bringing some of their guys home for this. Unconfirmed, take it as you will.

Now how's this to bake your noodle? What happens if they get those Hercs and Russia shoots them down? Not to mention the fact that there are two more carrier battle groups and two fresh Marine Expeditionary Units link and link
The dots are starting to come together.

Originally posted by mattifikation
The reality is, there are no "Good Guys" in this situation.

That is a good way to look at it. However innocent civilians are dieing by the hundreds, as the result of Georgia's actions. Even if Georgia can said to be standing up for what rightfully belongs to it, this was reckless and irresponsible, especially in the midst of ceasefire and peace talks.

Originally posted by mattifikation
But what Russia is doing, is intervening in another sovereign country's civil war

This Civil War involved Russian civilians - most S. Ossetians have dual Russian citizenship.

Originally posted by mattifikation
All of you people saying Russia is justified in helping South Ossetia would cry foul and scream 'till your heads popped if it were China going after Taiwan and the U.S. intervened on Taiwan's behalf - and you freakin' know it.

How is Taiwan like South Ossetia. Kosovo comparison would be more approprite.

Originally posted by mattifikation
Show me some communications between the U.S. and Georgia along the lines of, "Hey, do you think you guys could start a major military conflict against our most powerful rival that we'll almost certainly get drawn into at some point? We'd like to try and stretch our forces a little bit thinner."

Condoleezza Rice visited a month before the attack. U.S. held military exercises in Georgia right before the increase in hostilities. Bush condemned Russia entering South Ossetia, but did not say anything about Georgia shelling civilians in Tskhinvali. Short of a direct link with the U.S., this tells alot about the U.S. stance on the issue.

Originally posted by mattifikation
Friends, this war is merely a big bully beating up on a little bully for picking on the big bully's friend. No good guys. Stop acting like there is.

There may be no good guys, but Georgia must back off its hostilities. It is trying to spark an ethnical cleansing. Is Russia twisting the whole thing in their favor and taking advantage of this - you bet. Yet the civilians are still dieing, and no one besides Russia can come to their aid.

reply to post by djerwulfe


Um, yeah sure south america is our ally.

You should spend less time on smug diatribes and more time examining the continuity of your own contributions. Damn you're arrogant.

AAC

Originally posted by jetxnet

Google is anti-US, so if you think the government can get Google to phase out satellite images of Georgia, you're wrong.

Do you think that the data comes from google or from US controlled birds in the sky ? Do you think the birds reporting to the US sites on the internet could show anything the government did not want it too?

I hope i'm wrong but I do not think so.

The US has their military satcoms, but Google has their own satellites. They lease from another privately owned company if I remember right. In any case, the government does not control these satellites held by private organizations. These organizations have paid Nasa and even Russia to put them in space for them.

With that said, the US doesn't want to go against Russia right now but the tensions are high though.

USGS is what tells us where the cites are and it is completely government controlled. LOL and last time I checked there wasn't much left in this country not controlled by the goverenment. Did you even go to google maps and see what he is talking about?

It's not completely government controlled, not even close.

Look up who Google uses for their satellites. You'll see it is a privately owned company.

Military satellites use encryption and have different rendering algorithms.

Google has control (or the company they are leasing satellite time from) of the images the satellite is rendering.

Don't forget, none of it is real-time either. You're looking at snapshots from at least 1 day ago if not more.

To think the US is censoring Google maps of Georgia is rediculous. The US would, if anything, want you to see the destruction going on over there.


[edit on 8-8-2008 by jetxnet]

reply to post by netwarrior


If you are implying that the US and Russia are going to "have at it", then I'm sorry to inform you that it will not happen. This is going to be between Russia and Georgia. The US will not get involved in any conflict with Russian troops at this point in time. This little "conflict" will be finished up in a month or so.

There may be a chance of it escalating to a second front, but it won't become a full-fledged "world war" that so many people here think is going to happen.

C'mon folks, lets take a step back and try to think some of these thoughts through before jumping on the "world war is imminent!" band-wagon.

reply to post by DrOOpieS



World War I was fought over less. I did not "imply" anything, merely stating personal observations.

Interestingly enough, it was stated in one of the other Georgia threads here that there was a big military exercise going on there. The exercise only just ended on 31 July.
Immediate Response 2008
Immediate Response 2008 ends

Then, you get this Bombs dropped

There is a very good chance that there are (or was, as early as this morning) US troops still at that base. Ever hear of the term "casus belli?" Don't get me wrong; a war with the Russians right now would NOT be good, I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em.


Credit given to NovusOrdoMundi on the other thread.


ETA: credit for the other poster.



[edit on 9-8-2008 by netwarrior]

reply to post by netwarrior


Whereas I agree with you on your WWI statement, it also brings up the fact that things were different back then. I am in no way trying to detract your observation in any way. Just throwin in the ol' .02 cents I'm available for.