does this russian today website mean its going to end
i read what appeared to be that russias objectives were now complete

does that mean they stay or withdraw
who ever posted that link, please elaborate,
maybe send it to me privately
so you dont violate the rules

thanks

This is not intended to be off topic. Indeed, it is quite on topic in my view, as it reaffirms the purpose of this thread.

In the interests of objectivity and of the integrity of this thread which has been a wonderful resource for all ATS members and readers hoping to keep up to date on this extremely important crisis, I just want to reiterate the following.

Yesterday, the Georgian interior ministry stated that Russian forces were advancing into Gori. That turned out to be either a mistake or otherwise incorrect, and they promptly revised this statement to say that they were instead being shelled and hit by air strikes.

Subsequently, it was reported that Russian forces has crossed the Abkhazi border and occupied Sekani. This turned out to be true, and even Russia acknowledged it. Russia has since that time claimed to have left Sekani. Whether that is true or not has not been independently verified.

Now Georgia has fled from Gori, and has said that Russia has taken the city. Russia denies this, and independent observers on the ground, including diplomats and Reuters reporters have said that in fact Gori was empty, and not overrun by Russian military.

Russia likewise denies Georgian claims that it has captured the important port of Poti.

There is no verifiable independent confirmation of any of these supposed moves by Russia, or Georgia for that matter. All we have are myriad news reports which cite Russian or Georgian officials. The only thing that was confirmed definitively was the Russian occupation of Sekani, which may or may not have since been terminated.

I say this every so often, yet people keep posting about Russia having taken over most of Georgia and Tbilisi being in danger of imminent Russian ground assault. That may or may not be true. The point is that this thread is meant to be informative, balanced, and an objective resource, and we have no way of verifying any of this short of relying on the statements of two countries who are engaged in hostilities and in whose best interest it might be to withhold the truth from the world about what's really happening on the ground.

When we see reports from reporters on the ground saying that they saw not only Georgian forces fleeing from Gori, but Russian soldiers stationed in Gori, then we can be relatively certain (assuming the credibility of the reporters themselves of course) that things have escalated far beyond what anyone initially anticipated. Likewise, when we have definitive confirmation of atrocities committed by Georgia in South Ossetia, then we will know something horrific has occurred (as if war isn't horrific enough that is). Until that time, in the interests of objectivity, I feel we should restrain ourselves with respect to hyperbole. This is a plea to my fellow members.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by AceWombat04]

Russia can go as far as they want in Georgia, no one is going to stop them. There are no threats to Russia because no one has the balls to seriously engage the Russians in a military conflict, at least not one over a country that borders Russia directly.

Secondly, Russia never occupied Gori; all of that was disinformation spread by the Goergians hoping they could rouse some kind of response. When that failed, and U.S. officials admitted they had "no idea why they [Georgians] were saying that," then even the Georgians had to admit they made it up.

I think it is becoming more and more obvious with every passing hour that Russia never intended to absorb Georgia entirely. Russia will absorb S. Ossetia and perhaps Abkhazia, and replace Georgian leadership after disarming the country.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by The Crow]

Lets call a spade a spade... we started this

Not the EU, it has been US pressure all along to expand nato to Russias borders and US pressure throughout Eastern Europe to lay down our missile defense systems there.

This is why Russia is really doing this

I for one am still an American and... taking responsability for our actions I think... is a good place to start in remembering what makes us a great nation



Its a neigbor that needs help. understand, that the US did not start this and that the EU has said nothing, which is what I expected from them. All everyone seems to say is US this and US that, its not fair. The Eu has to do something. Look who is ahead of the NATO force, its the netherlands?. Not the US my american friend.

I wonder if Russia will bow to international pressure, return forces to SO ,and attempt to acquire SO through negotiations

Originally posted by AceWombat04
This is not intended to be off topic. Indeed, it is quite on topic in my view, as it reaffirms the purpose of this thread.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by AceWombat04]

How in the heck was that offtopic? thats one of the most well informed, highly agreeable posts in this thread!! A star for you my man!!

Just to note Sky News has on their ticker BREAKING NEWS: Georgian President tells Sky News there will be no surrender to Russia.

I can understand why he is doing this, to show he won't be pushed around. But can't he think of his people and just say "OK you win"?

Russia should do a siege of Tsibli and ask for the president to surrender. Then try him in Russia for war crimes, withdraw from Georgia and let the Georgians do another election.

This isn't about dead peace keepers it is about Russias back against the wall...

Exactly. Anyone who just looked at the situation with the nutjobs in Washington and the comments coming out from Russia knew that something like that would occur one day or another.

I thought that Russia would invade another country just before going to the next stage... nuclear war... but it seems I was wrong... I thought they would put bombers in Cuba first then see what the US does. But yeah the news that Georgia was to come into NATO in december and that Georgia started the whole thing with NATO help... it accelerated the whole thing.

And about the missile shield, in the end, the facts don't matter, what the Russian leadership believe is what counts.

and were marching on the capital Tsblisi

The Russians marched on Tsblisi with 13 000 troops against 30.000 troops entrenched? They've got balls if it's true.

"Georgia: Russians close off strategic Georgian port"

That will piss off the Ukrainians that said that Russia wouldn't be allowed to use their ships to attack Georgia... if Russians ships fire or are forced to fire it could turn ugly fast.

And CNN proping the propaganda... as always, but from a ``liberal`` perspective while Fox from a ``conservative`` perspective.

This war helps McCain... which is bad overall. And maybe a draft coming up.

And Rentor, your link isn't working... just so you know

And I think there's a few reasons why NATO pushed that now.

- Test Russian army
- Divert attention from the hearings on Bush's impeachment
- Divert attention from Iraq
- Divert attention from a possible strike on Iran
- Divert attention from the health of the economy
- Give a reason for NATO to exist and to expand
- Give a reason for the missile shield
- Do Cold War 2
- Do a draft

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Vitchilo]