Science has defined many things. The total sum of North American science comes from a people that ascended from people who came to the new world on boats (who believed the world was flat). Knowing this is the same type of mentality people have about God and of science. I would much rather take the word of a religion that believes in a God that created all and everything then in a science that only claims to have figured out the earth was not flat.

I'm not an atheist nor am I a religious man. This thread was created for all those who believe in God and haven't forgotten that we are all from the same branch in life but just different roots.

Stop trying to prove there isn't a God, and I will stop trying to prove there is one. Then we can all sit down and be friends.

Just in case no one has mentioned it I think you were saying disproving not disapproving...

I do disapprove of the Christian God and I don't have to prove that to anyone.

Disproving God is futile only because you cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, no one can.

"The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer" - Albert Einstein

Well what exactly is proof? Disprove that the earth isn't real, and I'm not really plugged into the matrix. You can't 'prove' anything, which is why we go by what we see, which is physical. Therefor God is already refuted (in a sense) as there are no facts proving his existence. If you use any other definition of proof, then you can NEVER prove or disprove anything. Prove to me that you're a real person, and not just a figment of my imagination. I guess what I'm getting at is that the burden of proof doesn't lay on the shoulders of atheist, but on those trying to prove such claims.

Originally posted by Moegli
"The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer" - Albert Einstein

Albert Einstein had a fetish for sleeping with his cousins. But he was brilliant in his own right. I think we can easily judge this man as he can easily judge those who believe in a God.

Those men in white coats who work day and night creating new ways to increase the penis or bust size of our fellow human beings will work toward self-destruction.

Can science really prove God does not exist? So they have tools but can they prove God doesn't exist within using anything of this world? No, they cannot and for them to deny God existing is like telling a blind man he can see if he just looks in the right area. A blind man sees darkness but outside of his own personal view there is a whole new world. Those who deny a God exists are in darkness (like a blind man).

Show me where a scientist has done wonders for the world? All the prophets and holy people of this world have done far more in our advancement as a species (yeah...species!) then any scientist has.

Albert Einstein helped create bombs due to his equation. Tesla could have easily done the same but he believed in "God" and sabotaged his own work to save the world from self-destruction. Because Tesla believed in "God" is the very reason we have wireless technology today and especially forms of communication.

Nazi Scientists tried to wipe clear the Jews because they claimed "Science" told them their ideals of a superior Aryan race was true.

Science says that people who are gay are genetically wired to be gay. Science is claiming they will eventually find a "Cure" for being gay by these very same studies being done to prove people are born gay.

Science says they found the "Suicide" gene so they are saying they can cure someone who has suicidal thoughts.

Science claims all people evolved from apes; yet, anthropologists are confused and are looking for the slice between Ape and "Man" yet fail to show where this holds true.

Science helped create germ warfare so Saddam could gas his own people as well as other people.

Science helped Bomb the Japanese and helped bomb Pearl Harbor.

Gandhi, Buddha, and Jesus saved more lives then any known scientists yet they never even earned a degree in anything!

Wait...someone needs to correct me.

One of those fellows earned a degree...

There I go making mistakes again. I wish science would create something so I wouldn't show my "infallibility" I don't think they can do that though nor do I think Science can ever create anything perfect.

Originally posted by clg79
Those men in white coats who work day and night creating new ways to increase the penis or bust size of our fellow human beings will work toward self-destruction.

Can science really prove God does not exist? So they have tools but can they prove God doesn't exist within using anything of this world? No, they cannot and for them to deny God existing is like telling a blind man he can see if he just looks in the right area. A blind man sees darkness but outside of his own personal view there is a whole new world. Those who deny a God exists are in darkness (like a blind man).

Show me where a scientist has done wonders for the world? All the prophets and holy people of this world have done far more in our advancement as a species (yeah...species!) then any scientist has.

Albert Einstein helped create bombs due to his equation. Tesla could have easily done the same but he believed in "God" and sabotaged his own work to save the world from self-destruction. Because Tesla believed in "God" is the very reason we have wireless technology today and especially forms of communication.

Nazi Scientists tried to wipe clear the Jews because they claimed "Science" told them their ideals of a superior Aryan race was true.

Science says that people who are gay are genetically wired to be gay. Science is claiming they will eventually find a "Cure" for being gay by these very same studies being done to prove people are born gay.

Science says they found the "Suicide" gene so they are saying they can cure someone who has suicidal thoughts.

Science claims all people evolved from apes; yet, anthropologists are confused and are looking for the slice between Ape and "Man" yet fail to show where this holds true.

Science helped create germ warfare so Saddam could gas his own people as well as other people.

Science helped Bomb the Japanese and helped bomb Pearl Harbor.

Gandhi, Buddha, and Jesus saved more lives then any known scientists yet they never even earned a degree in anything!

nice, nice... but science also made the computer that you are using to bash it

Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is the effort to discover, and increase human understanding of how the physical world works. Through controlled methods, science uses observable physical evidence of natural phenomena to collect data, and analyzes this information to explain what and how things work. Such methods include experimentation that tries to simulate natural phenomena under controlled conditions and thought experiments. Knowledge in science is gained through research.

By even denying God majority of Scientists are being hypocrites.

They are supposed to collect data and analyze the information to explain how things work. What Data has been collected that can prove God does not exist? Thought experiments? Doesn't that sound like science fiction? What are these thought experiments supposed to do? Help create bigger and stronger weapons of mass destruction? Doesn't this sound hypocritical?

The investigation of natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation, or the knowledge produced by such investigation. ◇ Science makes use of the scientific method, which includes the careful observation of natural phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis, the conducting of one or more experiments to test the hypothesis, and the drawing of a conclusion that confirms or modifies the hypothesis.

If this is the definition of Science then how come Scientists don't try and work on "live" human beings? Wouldn't this be the main point of figuring out how things work? Why do scientists only experiment on animals if the nature of science is to: "Investigate natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation"

Sounds to me like more hypocrites. They can't call themselves scientists because of the "Morality" behind being a human being. The true scientist is a mad one and if it wasn't for people who believed in God they would be ripping open our relatives; and cutting them up while still alive. This is the nature of science in brutality toward not only animals but human beings as well. Because those scientists who keep an open mind about "God" care deeply about moral implications of study and experimentation they refuse to become a full fledged "Man of Science" For those men and women I commend to the others who say all things can be explained in logic...I say bless you too for teaching us the ideas of morality.

Originally posted by AlexG141989



nice, nice... but science also made the computer that you are using to bash it

nice, nice... but science had to use materials from this world to make it. Just because I cut down a tree and shape it into a boat doesn't mean science owns the tree now does it?

I do believe in some aspects of science. Just not the ones who openly deny a "God" created us. I'm for scientists who are like Tesla and keep an very open mind (humble one too!) about the existence of God.

I just see the hypocritical thinking of it all. I'm not even Christian, Catholic, or other. But I do believe in Buddha, Jesus (Yeshua), the Saints, and so many other "Great" people who have ever lived and walked on this planet. These people changed the world and left a bigger impact on our lives then any scientist ever has.

There are millions upon millions who believe there is a God. Wouldn't that also be a sort of science? All those people observing phenomenon, investigating it (through prayer and cause/effect of prayer), and totally agreeing upon the findings? Even if they argue about the similar findings at least the large majority of people who believe in God are agreeing about one thing: That a "God" does exist.

I think there are about 2.1 billion Christians in the world. How many of those work in fields of study involving some forms of earth sciences? I'm sure there are a lot that do yet still hold that there exist a God that created us. Now why on earth would all those people believe this if in fact some portion of them are right? I'd rather believe in the large majority then believe in a small portion who just deny God because they want to feel special about themselves in the world (and who justify their experimentation of things).



[edit on 8-8-2008 by clg79]

Originally posted by clg79
Science has defined many things. The total sum of North American science comes from a people that ascended from people who came to the new world on boats (who believed the world was flat).

I disagree. I also think you would have a tough time proving that everyone that came on boats believed the world was flat. In fact, such an ignorant statement sort of sets the tone for the rest of your post:

I would much rather take the word of a religion that believes in a God that created all and everything then in a science that only claims to have figured out the earth was not flat.

Really, that's all science has ever done, was to claim the earth wasn't flat? Again, I disagree, and you are further setting the tone.

Stop trying to prove there isn't a God, and I will stop trying to prove there is one. Then we can all sit down and be friends.

Definition of faith:
" firm belief in something for which there is no proof"

By trying to prove there is a god, you are undermining your own faith.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by scientist]

I didnt read the other thread for wich this one seems to be mirroring. We see that alot in this debate dont we. Most of my relgious knowledge is confined to one very popular one.
Interestingly though, other popular relgions are quite similar. Also very interesting...even at this very moment, holy war is raging on...maybe the bloodiest of them all when it is said and done. So who is right and who is wrong.
What was the tale in the bible where everyone spoke in a different tongue? I think that is meant to describe different religions too. It seems like the perfect folk tale to give somthing we dont understand meaning. "It must have been god". Natives have stories like this for all sorts of things they dont really understand but they make up these beliefs so they could perform rituals to apease certain spirits they believed inhabited the objects around them.
early religion only high sitting holy people were permitted to pray to a god or gods. They would pray to a rain god, but over time they saw that praying didnt always bring or stop rain. So they changed their belief and didnt need to pray directly to a rain god.
Just some thoughts on the subject. I think we shouldnt have such a strong faith in writings derived from other humans. There may be some form of a creator, I like to think that because of religion we cant see how it truly is.

Trying to disprove God using science is going about it the wrong way. God could be hiding behind any nook or cranny so anyone trying to prove that God doesn't exist using physical terms is running in circles. I'd much rather talk about proving the things we can. This includes the many contradictions in the Bible, as well as contradictions of an omnipotent God. There are certain things that people never talk about, such as the irony of an infinite being creating something. Infinite is all encompassing, think about it. Another one is the idea of a creator judging his creation. Isn't this backwards? There are many other contradictions that people obviously didn't think about when writing the Bible. I would advise people to look at these and other contradictions rather than trying to disprove God through science.


edit: I just noticed my ATS points = -420. That reminds me of something I have to do .

[edit on 10-8-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by clg79
Can science really prove God does not exist? So they have tools but can they prove God doesn't exist within using anything of this world? No, they cannot and for them to deny God existing is like telling a blind man he can see if he just looks in the right area. A blind man sees darkness but outside of his own personal view there is a whole new world. Those who deny a God exists are in darkness (like a blind man).

Umm... huh? Ok, I'll play this game, though I'll regret it I'm sure.
Scientists can't prove that Zeus doesn't exist! Even with all them tools and their learnin' n' what nawt. They're clearly hypocrites because they can't prove that Zeus doesn't exist, and yet those ignorant folk don't even believe in the darned guy.

Originally posted by clg79
Show me where a scientist has done wonders for the world?

Err Ok... Vaccines, cures, drugs, internet, world communications, creation of jobs, better understanding of life, better understanding of the universe, knowledge to debunk wakos, etc. Seriously if you don't know these things and much more that scientists have done then I must ask what rock you've been living under.

Originally posted by clg79
All the prophets and holy people of this world have done far more in our advancement as a species (yeah...species!) then any scientist has.

That's funny, I seem to remember religion causing quite a number of wars throughout history.

Originally posted by clg79
Nazi Scientists tried to wipe clear the Jews because they claimed "Science" told them their ideals of a superior Aryan race was true.

Funny thing about scientists. Not all of them are Nazis. Imagine that.

Originally posted by clg79
Science claims all people evolved from apes; yet, anthropologists are confused and are looking for the slice between Ape and "Man" yet fail to show where this holds true.

Religious people claim that God exists; yet, atheists are confused as to why, and are looking for the facts.

Originally posted by clg79
Gandhi, Buddha, and Jesus saved more lives then any known scientists yet they never even earned a degree in anything!

Not sure about the others, but Jesus caused more 'holy wars' than any scientist has (that being 0).

Originally posted by clg79
By even denying God majority of Scientists are being hypocrites.

They are supposed to collect data and analyze the information to explain how things work. What Data has been collected that can prove God does not exist? Thought experiments? Doesn't that sound like science fiction? What are these thought experiments supposed to do? Help create bigger and stronger weapons of mass destruction? Doesn't this sound hypocritical?

You're right about one thing. Scientists collect data and analyze information based on that data. Seeing as there is no scientific data on God, how do you expect them to analyze it?
You call scientists hypocrites yet you are the hypocrite. You don't even believe in Zeus even in light of the fact that there is no data to prove that he doesn't exist.