War in Georgia

That was a very terse warning and short statement with Bush flubbing most of his lines. I think he was nervous (or excited) and then he quickly walked away.

I think this thing is about to severely escalate.
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Originally posted by Gools
I think this thing is about to severely escalate.
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If Russia veto's this UN statement and refuses to agree to the EU sponsored ceasefire - then yes, this is going to escalate.

Eastern Europeans are starting to side with Georgia too. Ukraine is starting to make rumbles.

reply to post by infinite


That's what worries me the most.

Countries are picking sides and lining up into camps.

We also have rumours of bases on alert.
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reply to post by Gools


Once a doomer always a doomer? Lets rather not talk about escalation? I know we aren't exactly making the decisions but at these times you just hope that hoping helps!

Stellar

Haha, yea Russia would never break a ceasefire.
Do you guys really think that 18 years is enough time to shed the old
Soviet attitude?
They tear down a wall and declare "petroiska and glasnost" and in less than 20 years theyve gained this much of the worlds trust?
Have you forgotten that Putin was the leader of the KGB, do you actually believe that hes not still in charge anymore?

The FUNNIEST damn thing that I keep hearing from some people is that this is Americas fault
Russia invades its tiny neighbor with a military thats 26,000 members strong and its the USA's fault.
Good ole Russia

Originally posted by Gools
We also have rumours of bases on alert.
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Where? In Eastern Europe?

RussiaToday

Also, Russian media did not deny reports (even claims actually) that Russian troops are advancing on Tbilisi. RussiaToday states:

The Georgian army is pulling in troops to Tbilisi to protect the capital from the advancing Russian forces.

Seems Moscow is planning to remove the government.

My Two Cents

I am with Russia on this conflict personally and that dosen't have anything to do with my dislike of the American Goverment what so ever.

Georgia attacked South Ossetia (SO) and killed quite a number of people. Russia have basically just defended SO by pushing back the Georgian soldiers. I feel the media is putting the blame far too heavily on Russia for something it is not doing, they are helping SO out but the US and the media can not see it. I heard on the news earlier on today part of the speech the Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin gave saying exactly the same. He mentioned that the west has got it all wrong. I agree with him.

Also I found a website which had the following:

South Ossetia, which fought to break free from Georgian rule in 1991-92, maintains close ties with its Russian North Ossetia. Most of South Ossetia's 70,000 people hold Russian citizenship, entitling them to Russian state benefits. South Ossetia's affinity with Russia has been a thorn in the side of Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, who took power in a 2006 grassroots revolution. His aspirations to join NATO and promises to ensure territorial integrity have won support from Western governments. "If Saakashvili stood in front of me, I would wish him eternal hell after what we have been through," an elderly woman said, weeping in a Tskhinvali street as she recounted how she hid from Georgian bombardment in a cellar with her two terrified grandchildren. "Why is he trying to kill Ossetians? He should see with his own eyes what he has done with us. He would be ripped to bits on the streets if he ever came here." As Georgian troops shelled the city, she said, her grandson screamed for "Uncle Putin" to save him. "Thank God the Russians have come," she said. "It is getting better." Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Monday criticised the West, saying it had mistaken the aggressors for victims in the conflict over South Ossetia. "Putin is our golden leader. He defends us and gives us food," said 73-year-old Nadezhda Pliyeva, waiting in Java for a bus to Vladikavkaz after fleeing the village of Prinevi, 12 km from Tskhinvali. Tengiz Khugayev, aged 45, a member of the South Ossetian rebel contingent dressed in camouflage uniform, was shuttling refugees between Java and the North Ossetian capital. "One should understand that if we are cut off from Russia, we will have no future," Khugayev said. "If Russia withdraws its troops from here, we won't be able to do anything. Look, the Georgians laid waste to Tskhinvali in just one day. We will not survive without Russia."

The website it came from was

www.reuters.com...

Does anyone else agree with me and feel that Russia are getting the blame put onto them?

If Russia didn't have a nuclear arsenal, NATO would probably be bombing Russian "strategic bases" vital to their war effort in Georgia. Just as the Russians hvae been claiming they have been doing. Maybe Rusia is applying one of Tsun Tzu's lesson " when you are weak, show that you are strong".

Everybody relax. Russia does not want to incur the wrath of NATO/US. It is simply, IMO, trying to damage as much of the Georgian military infrastructure as possible before it has to back off due to pressure from the international community. It knows the UN will take a while longer to have a chat, tea and cookies (as they do...) before anything serious is decided. I don't think for one second they will try and take Tbilisi - I think they'll be backing off soon and just holding key parts of S.O. Their goal is to make sure Georgia can't counter attack or try and re-take S.O. again any time soon. They're not interested in taking Georgia.

If they do advance on Tbilisi then things could get interesting. But I strongly feel they'll be backing off soon.

reply to post by MrMillztar



That article you quoted was incredibly biased. Take thi quote for example " As Georgian troops shelled the city, she said, her grandson screamed for "Uncle Putin" to save him.", what a load of bias garbage, it used to be Uncle Stalin once upon a time
Russian has fermented this by arming the South Ossetians and ecouraging them to oppose Georgian rule. Baring in mind of course the SO militia preceded Georgia's crackdown with an artillery bombarbardment which killed 10 Georgians. The SO's can bitch and complain all they want, they are the ones who provoked Georgia with Russia's blessing. So yes Russia is o blame for this. Although I can see their use of basic prorpganda is persuading some people such as yorslef that they are right.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by rogue1]

Russian Ministry of Defence confirmed that two companies from two batallions of "ГРУ Генштаба ВС РФ"(special forces of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence) have been relocated to South Osetia.They are comprised only of chechen soldiers and already were fighting against chechen speznas in the time of Ichkeria's independence on Abhazia's territory.

top.rbc.ru...

reply to post by infinite


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Among others.

Am I the only one who has noticed how China has the eyes of the world on it for the next three weeks and now Russia is occupied with an insanely reckless provocation that made no sense (by a US puppet and started at the same time) and that both of these countries are Iranian allies?

Interesting times ahead.
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reply to post by rogue1


I see what you are saying about the article being extreamlly biased and through reading it again I do see that it is biased especially that quote that you picked out. But however that is just the media in a nutshell, completely biased. You wouldn't expect a Georgian newspaper to publish a story saying that Georgia was too blame and its there fault. they would put that it was Russia's fault for all the death and violence. Basically to fuel the anger in Georgians to make them fight back even though...they don't really stand a chance.

I did also think that Russia may just be saying that to prove their "innocence" but I just don't feel that they are lying this time. I still feel I have a lot to research on this topic area...Troubled Times Lie Ahead

Maloy and others:

Did you guys catch the Bush statement today where he referred to fighting starting on August 6th? Was this just a Bushism or something specific?

What "event" do you think he's referring to?

I thought the attack by Georgia was on the night of the 7th to the 8th.


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Originally posted by Gools
Maloy and others:

Did you guys catch the Bush statement today where he referred to fighting starting on August 6th? Was this just a Bushism or something specific?

What "event" do you think he's referring to?

I thought the attack by Georgia was on the night of the 7th to the 8th.

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Perhaps the timezone he referred to was still in the ''6th'' whilst EU was already in the 7th of august? (I don't know the exact time that the first shot was.. shot?)

Also until now he has been referring to returning to the status-quo ante of the 6th of august, so even if there is no way that timezones are the reason, I would say that it's just a ''mistake''.

Also I have a soundbite a few pages back in which Saakashvili says something about his troops being stationed in the conflict zone regularly after completing the task of cleaning.. after which he cuts to say that they have pulled out of the area.

[edit on 11/8/08 by -0mega-]

reply to post by Gools


It will be interesting to see how China reacts after the Olympics. If Beijing is under the impression the United States tried to sabotage their crowning moment, expect a few negative comments about the Dollar and "diversifying China's foreign reserves" to be made by the Communist Party.

Originally posted by rogue1
If Russia didn't have a nuclear arsenal, NATO would probably be bombing Russian "strategic bases" vital to their war effort in Georgia.

Russia would not need a nuclear arsenal to ward of such aggression.

Just as the Russians hvae been claiming they have been doing.

With far more legitimacy than any excuses the US have managed to produce i n the course of the last few decades. Did the Iraqi's kill American peace keepers? What?

Maybe Rusia is applying one of Tsun Tzu's lesson " when you are weak, show that you are strong".

As compared to so having feigned weakness because to hide the strength they never lost with end of the cold war?

Stellar

Yet again (fifth time now) the UN Security Council meeting has achieved nothing.

[edit on 11/8/08 by -0mega-]

Dang the door to an Iran strike seems more open than ever.

Russia claims that they are defending their South Ossetian "little brothers" from the aggressor Georgia and their 7 combat aircraft. In response the Russians are on the verge of, and justifying the overthrow of the Georgian government.

This is almost the same as the U.S. defending their Israeli "little brothers" from the terrorist attacks by the Iranians and their proxies. The U.S. is also defending the "little brother" Iraqi government form the Iranian supported Shiite militias (even though most Iraq is Shiite).

This whole Russian attack just sets a precedent for the U.S. and Israel to attempt a devastating air-strike on Iran and a decapitation attack on the Iranian leadership. If Russia can attack a puny country that didn't actually attack them directly or indirectly, why can't Israel or the U.S.? No need to make funny claims about WMD's, Oklahoma City terror links, or anthrax letters this time around, just say "If Russia can do it, so can we."