Russian volunteers head for South Ossetia, page 1

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Topic started on 7-8-2008 @ 06:46 PM by Harlequin

Russian volunteers head for South Ossetia

uk.news.yahoo.com

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Hundreds of volunteers from Russia and Abkhazia headed for Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia on Friday to join separatists fighting Tbilisi forces, Interfax news agency reported.

It quoted Taimuraz Mamsurov, the head of Russia's province of North Ossetia bordering South Ossetia, as saying: "Hundreds of volunteers from North Ossetia are on their way to South Ossetia. We cannot stop them or prevent them from going."

(visit the link for the full news article)

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:46 PM by Harlequin

Given all the news over iran , this is slipping under the news net - Georgia have US backing and russia are fighting (and winning) a proxy war - its only a matter of itime before the caucusses blow up in flames

uk.news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:10 PM by maloy

Originally posted by Harlequin

Given all the news over iran , this is slipping under the news net - Georgia have US backing and russia are fighting (and winning) a proxy war - its only a matter of itime before the caucusses blow up in flames

uk.news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I agree, except for BBC this is being completely ignored in the West. The Caucasus region has a tendency to have wars escalate very quickly and become very bloody and dirty. It is shameful how U.S. ignores the events despite being the catalyst of the renewed conflict.

If the war breaks out you can be sure than many innocent people will die - this will not be a clean war or a quick one.

Thanks to U.S. support, Georgia is armed to the teeth and eager for revenge. Without Russia's help, South Ossetia will be obliterated and ethnically cleansed. Abkhazia - the other Georgian breakaway region - can stand for its own, and will likely back Ossetia.

What you have here is a classic war-escalation scenario. Both sides are not happy with the current ceasefire - South Ossetia and Abkhazia want full independence, and Georgia wants to stretch its muscles and to revenge for the earlier wars of 1990's. Both sides have been preparing for war for a decade. On top of that both sides have powerful allies - Russia for Ossetia and U.S. for Georgia. Plus the Chechen and other Caucasus separatists are still well-armed and will likely renew their struggle amidst the regional violence.

This is looking real bad for all sides involved. The question is what will the U.S. do? It has a crucial new oil pipeline in Georgia, and NATO membership of Georgia is pending. The vast majority of Americans have no clue about what U.S. is involved in overseas besides Iraq. It is a shame, because as bloody as this was will be many people will have no clue about what is really going on.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:17 PM by maloy

As for Russian volunteers - I wouldn't call them such. Russia has every interest to be involved in this war, and cannot ignore the threat coming from Georgia's force escalation. Russia is gradually channeling lightly-armed troops to the region in hopes that this will prevent Georgia's attack. U.N. is supposedly overseeing the situation, but it is completely powerless and will not intervene under any circumstances.

If Georgia planned out its strategy well (which given history of military failure I doubt it has), it can overrun Ossetia in a matter of weeks, even against a small Russian contingent. But that will not be the end, because Abkhazia will then channel guerilla forces into Ossetia and will begin a full-scale separatist war.

If Georgia did not plan accordingly, its forces will be dealt a heavy blow from which they won't recover, Ossetia and Abkhazia will declare independence, and Georgia would be threatened with a coup or a civil war.

Saakashvilli (Georgia's President) is an idiot, and U.S. is even more of an idiot for supporting him.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:30 PM by maloy

LATEST NEWS:

Georgia appears to have started a full scale attack on the separatist republic, backed by artillery bombardment.

Georgian, SOssetian troops clash near Tskhinvali - SOssetia leader

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:38 PM by Maxmars

Thank you for highlighting this event. You are very correct that the United States media machine is VERY quiet about this. Perhaps wishing to avoid a public understanding of what is being supported in the name of the American people, as often has been the case.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:50 PM by maloy

Over 1,000 U.S. troops have been holding large scale military exercises in Georgia less than a month ago.

That couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the planned attack could it?

I am truly hoping that Russia will intervene soon, by placing massive numbers of armed peacekeepers in South Ossetia. Otherwise Georgia will create a meatgrinder when it enters the region. There was large scale ethnical cleansing in the 1990's war in South Ossetia, and after Georgia lost then, many Georgian troops were slaughtered. Georgia is known to have a very vengeful culture, and there is no doubt blood will flow once Georgian occupation forces enter the region.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:19 PM by bismarcksea

WW3 is nearly upon us. I've been screaming this for years hoping that I was just a crazy person.

Sometimes being right doesn't feel so good.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 11:14 PM by northwolf

reply to post by maloy

Maloy, i think we both know that russians heading for South Ossetia are not volunteers. But do you know what unit has been sent to support the separatists? From what i've heard recently it's about infantry batallion, mostly professional troops. Are special forces allready on the move?

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 11:20 PM by Sky watcher

Originally posted by maloy
Over 1,000 U.S. troops have been holding large scale military exercises in Georgia less than a month ago.

That couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the planned attack could it?

I am truly hoping that Russia will intervene soon, by placing massive numbers of armed peacekeepers in South Ossetia. Otherwise Georgia will create a meatgrinder when it enters the region. There was large scale ethnical cleansing in the 1990's war in South Ossetia, and after Georgia lost then, many Georgian troops were slaughtered. Georgia is known to have a very vengeful culture, and there is no doubt blood will flow once Georgian occupation forces enter the region.

Yeah I don't see NATO not knowing about this before hand. Why would Georgia risk losing the support? The state department is already saying that it looks like the South Ossetians started it so Bush could really be trying to push Russia's around thinking that they wont intervene during the Olympics giving Georgia enough time to take the break away province.

We have talked about this awhile ago and I just seen some videos of riots in Georgia so maybe the common people are against this move.

So far Georgia has been prepping the area for an invasion but I think and hope that NATO yanks them by the tail and prevents it. I didn't hear about this till I saw it on BBC TV. American media is so frickin corrupt they try to hide so much real news from us that its ridiculous.

I just hope our Marines are not still there because Russia needs to be able to calm Georgia down if they think they are going to invade that area.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 11:31 PM by Vitchilo

I don't know the history of this part of the world, could you enlighten me and surely others ATSers... this could become a big war, an important one at least, for NATO, the world, and Russia-US futures relations.

So from what I've red, South Ossetia is like Quebec. I'm from Quebec and I support them, as the UN should since most of the world support the auto-determination of every people in the world if they wish so.

And the whole thing is legal. They made 2 referendum and it was voted YES by 99% of the population. They were attacked back in 90 and now even more when they try to become full independant by diplomacy. Georgia is disgusting.

Is it correct?

Kosovo isn't the same thing... Albanians already have their own country: Albania, if they want to expand it, invade Serbia.

And how obvious is it? They started it in the first hours of the olympics!

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Vitchilo]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 11:36 PM by northwolf

reply to post by Vitchilo

Here is a recent thread that has some good analysis about the region. I think that Maloy can shed more light to this issue, as his analysis have been very accurate. Western media is extremely biased as pro Georgian. (and i'm anti russian, but that kind of blatant propaganda is sickening

)

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 12:55 AM by DrOOpieS

reply to post by bismarcksea

Unfortunately, people have been saying the exact same thing for years. A massive world war will not happen. Period.

Several small-scale regional conflicts? You bet. There is too much to be lost if the "Superpowers" have at it.

Something will be going on in Lebanon/Syria by the end of the year. Hopefully nothing more than a little bit of "severe" sabre rattling.

This mess in Georgia will be dealt with and be resolved within a month. If not, I owe you a soda.

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 12:58 AM by Memysabu

So uh, what do you think if Texas broke from the union and Russia put 1k troops there? And backed Texas?

Thats pretty much the end of the story, we would be going to war with Russia.

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 03:21 AM by Harlequin

reply to post by Memysabu

The USA got involved when they stated this `support breakaway countries` thing with kosovo - now russia is simpply doing the same in georgia - except the USA doesn`t like it.

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 03:36 AM by absente

Russia is sending a unit from the army's railway force to the breakaway province of Abkhazia, the country's defence ministry has said.

The 300 unarmed troops are needed to help carry out repairs on the network, said the head of Abkhazia's railways.

source: BBC

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 09:08 AM by northwolf

The 300 men that were recently sent to South.Ossetia, are not the same thing as those "volunteers" that are currently moving in. Those builders were official, the last bunch is acting as private citizens. (Private citizens my ass, it's just a trick by the Russians to avoid declaration of war)

Maloy:
Do you know if the 76th "Chernikov" has moved out of Pskov? I heard a rumor that tranport squadron had taken off this morning from Pskov airfield... (I work partially in Russian territory and talk/listen to border troops on a daily basis)

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 12:04 PM by maloy

Originally posted by northwolf
reply to post by maloy

Maloy, i think we both know that russians heading for South Ossetia are not volunteers. But do you know what unit has been sent to support the separatists? From what i've heard recently it's about infantry batallion, mostly professional troops. Are special forces allready on the move?

Russian troops stationed in the Caucasus have been preparing for this war for the last 3 months. I have a friend stationed there, and I have been communicating with him for the last two days. His unit is not being deployed, and there are no plans for a large scale Russian deployment. It appears that all Russia wants to do is secure all of South Ossetia and repel any Georgian attack - it is unlikely that Russia will pursue retreating Georgians beyond the South Ossetia border. There will be limited air strikes against Georgian airforce and artillery units which have been staging attacks against South Ossetia.

From what my friend tells me, Russian troops in the region have been ready to move in since the large scale fighting first started 20 hours ago. They had orders to wait for Moscow's orders, meanwhile North Ossetian fighters (not part of Russian army, but likely armed with army-supplied weapons) have started crossing into South Ossetia in just a few hours.

A limited and specifically prepared Russian army contingent (motorized infantry) was given orders to advance about 11am Moscow time (about 12 hours after fighting started). I do not know how many Russian troops entered Ossetia, but it is no more than a few thousand. Their goal is to relieve the seige of Tskhinvali and neighboring Ossetian villages, and defend against Georgian troops.

Unconfirmed reports state that attack aircraft (Su-25) have been carrying out strikes against Georgian troops even before 11am Moscow time. At first the media reported these to be South Ossetian jet, but S. Ossetia has no airforce. So it is likely that Russian airforce was ordered to carry out precision strikes.

For now it seems like Russia is not planning to send in any more troops besides those already in S. Ossetia, likely in hopes that Georgia will back-off and retreat.

It is now Saakashvilli's move. If the idiot orders the remainder of the 35,000 Georgian troops in the republic, Russia will be forced to escalate the millitary engagement, and pull-up the remaining North Caucasus troops. Moreover this move by Georgia will allow Abkhazia to open-up the second front and attack the undefended Georgia.

Innitial reports indicate that after brief engagement with Russian armor, Georgian troops are retreating from the city. They are still involved in a full-scale military engagement with S. Ossetian fighters however.

Georgia is on the verge of declaring war with Russia. Russia will not likely make a similar declaration, since its goals are only to secure South Ossetia. Question remains as to what is going to happen in Abkhazia, which has stayed relatively quiet so far.

LATEST UPDATE:

Senior Russian military command is reporting that Georgian troops have engaged in ethnical cleansing in S. Ossetian villages near Tskhinvaly, and have fired on retreating civilians outside the city. Untill Russian troops get to the area, these reports are uncofirmed.

10 Russian peacekeepers died early when the fighting started yesterday, after their base was hit by a Georgian shell.

Georgian ambassodor is recalled from Moscow.

Putin appears to be standing aside during the affair, and is letting Medvedev handle the situation. This is the first real trial for Medvedev, and his actions now are crucial in getting popular support from Russians and establishing him as a figurehead in Moscow. Medvedev could be coming out from Putin's shadow if he succeeds in stabilizing the situation.

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 12:09 PM by maloy

Originally posted by northwolf
Do you know if the 76th "Chernikov" has moved out of Pskov? I heard a rumor that tranport squadron had taken off this morning from Pskov airfield... (I work partially in Russian territory and talk/listen to border troops on a daily basis)

No, I know little about actions by specific squadrons. But Russia is gradually pulling regional troops to the border in order to be ready for Georgia's next move.

Russia does not want to overcrowd the already tiny republic. That would make them easy targets for Georgian artillery and airforce.

Plus there is already a large contingent of South Ossetian and North Ossetian fighters organizing throughout the republic. Much of S. Ossetian army escaped Georgian advanced and are regrouping. Russian troops may be nothing more than heavy support.

reply posted on 8-8-2008 @ 12:12 PM by buddhasystem

The Don Cossacks are forming an all-volunteer, 450-strong regiment, which would be an Army unit. That's a significant force.

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