Raising Kids Without Religion... A cop-out?

Originally posted by asmeone2


With all due respect to what you beleive, there has been through history great evil comitted by Christians. Sometimes it's in the name of saving souls, sometimes 'in the name of god' is used as an excuse.

Not to mention rampant hypocracy, and the holier-than-thou.

You need to look at my old inquisition thread. Here
I think you'll eventually come to realize that many things done in the name of Christianity were evil, but, Jesus never is. Those that Love Him try to walk in His ways and LOVE others for nothing in return.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by ClearskiesI know they have a wide-array of something, but, they usually share hatred for Christians. Insulting, belittling, even outright lies against us.

.

It is a stereotypical view of christianity that ppl are addressing. Not you personally.

I think it was the OP who said in another thread that religious groups should be more selective in choosing who you have representing your religion bc this is the view the world will have of you.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by justamomma]

Yep. That is the absolute truth.

I think makes everyone in the church seem guilty by association. For instance, they looked the other way at this pastor's sins, so perhaps he looked the other way at theirs?

Just the same way as "evangelical atheists" give all of the A's a bad name. I get just as ticked off at the people who's disbeleif is nothing but a reversed version of the guys that dogmaically beleive in God.

BTW, I think Texas is where they practiced to steal the US election....

Originally posted by Clearskies

Originally posted by asmeone2


With all due respect to what you beleive, there has been through history great evil comitted by Christians. Sometimes it's in the name of saving souls, sometimes 'in the name of god' is used as an excuse.

Not to mention rampant hypocracy, and the holier-than-thou.

You need to look at my old inquisition thread. Here
I think you'll eventually come to realize that many things done in the name of Christianity were evil, but, Jesus never is. Those that Love Him try to walk in His ways and LOVE others for nothing in return.

Sorry, but we're at the moment still on Earth, and the goodness of the minority who truly follows Jesus doesn't erase the pain caused by the atrocities comitted by those who don't.

Edit for poor wording.



[edit on 7-8-2008 by asmeone2]

Well, even Christians know not to trust ALL men, because there are wolves in sheep's clothing.

I don't think you would hate ALL of atheism because of what happened in Russia and China?

Originally posted by Clearskies
Well, even Christians know not to trust ALL men, because there are wolves in sheep's clothing.

So who would you trust?

I don't think you would hate ALL of atheism because of what happened in Russia and China?

No, but that's exactly what many Christians try to argue.

Originally posted by asmeone2BTW, I think Texas is where they practiced to steal the US election....

I'll go with that theory!

Originally posted by Clearskies
Well, even Christians know not to trust ALL men, because there are wolves in sheep's clothing.

I don't think you would hate ALL of atheism because of what happened in Russia and China?

Why are you turning this into a debate and arguement about Christianity vs Atheism when that was not the point of this thread?

If you are secure in your preferred belief system (which you don't sound like you are at the present moment), then give your view concerning the topic of this thread.

Is it a cop-out, in your opinion, to raise kids w/out religion (I believe the OP was generalizing "religion" in the first place, but in America, since most are or have been raised w/ christianity it just kind of got steered in that direction)?

[edit on 7-8-2008 by justamomma]

Actually I'm curious to hear whas s/he says about trusting me... I want to know how you choose who is trustyworthy and who isn't? If all men are fallen, aren't they all untrustworthy?

Originally posted by Clearskies
There are a LOT of atheists and agnostics who are not consistent in their logic.
Why is it, if a Christian states their faith, they're immediately insulted with names? 'Narrow-minded', 'oppressive' and 'gullible believer of lies?', many here that I haven't posted.

But, when someone of atheism, agnosticism does the same, they are USUALLY never insulted?
I believe it's about one's character.


BTW, I have NEVER in all my years heard anyone (who is a Christian) say.
"God works in mysterious ways"!

now, you may continue with your christian-bashing, if you so choose

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Clearskies]

I believe I know why. ATS seems to be a forum where people come to seek the truth that they can't find elsewhere. A scientist needs proof. Faith doesn't need proof.

Believe me, I wrestle with this daily. I have a 19-month old and I grew up a Catholic. I can't tell you how much guilt it created in me. Although I believe I'm a free thinker now and don't follow dogma, I like the Catholic tradition. It's a tradition I would like my children to follow, at least until they can figure it out. I hate to say it, but it feels a bit like telling them about Santa Claus. I believe someone created us and we should be thankful. However, that is just my spiritual belief that says we are all connected. To me, dogma, any dogma, is nothing but population control in the absence of authority.

I can hear the tomatoes flying toward me!

Originally posted by manticore
Believe me, I wrestle with this daily. I have a 19-month old and I grew up a Catholic. I can't tell you how much guilt it created in me. Although I believe I'm a free thinker now and don't follow dogma, I like the Catholic tradition. It's a tradition I would like my children to follow, at least until they can figure it out. I hate to say it, but it feels a bit like telling them about Santa Claus. I believe someone created us and we should be thankful. However, that is just my spiritual belief that says we are all connected. To me, dogma, any dogma, is nothing but population control in the absence of authority.

I can hear the tomatoes flying toward me!

One of the things that I miss about organized religion is the participation of rituals.

TO me, there is something sobering about participation that has continued hundreds of years before m.e

Religion is not needed in order to be raised with good moral values.

Originally posted by sobek52
Religion is not needed in order to be raised with good moral values.

No, it isn't. It irks me that many religions assume that they have a corner on good values. Most of them are essentially the same.

Good Thread.

i am not religious at all. i am VERY spiritual though.

i have 2 kids, both boys, ages 14 and 16.
i have never once preached religion to them, but mentioned the possibility of a god.

when my kids do bad, i talk to them, question why.
i preach JUST DOING THE RIGHT thing.

i look around me, and i see a lot of lost kids, with heavy peer pressure, and know the parents just dont talk to them. lost souls.

the ability to talk, be it religion, is the key.

you CAN be a good person, with good values, without attending church, in my opinion.

i am a Football (soccer) manager/coach.
along the way (11 years) iv seen some decent kids with really bad parents.
a lot of these parents were drug users or liked to drink.

just my views

reply to post by shauny


Good for you. It sounds like you've started your kids off well.

Originally posted by manticore
I hate to say it, but it feels a bit like telling them about Santa Claus. I believe someone created us and we should be thankful. However, that is just my spiritual belief that says we are all connected. To me, dogma, any dogma, is nothing but population control in the absence of authority.

I can hear the tomatoes flying toward me!

I agree whole heartedly with everything you have said here.

I find it funny (not haha, but in the ironic sense) that many Christians would punish their children for lying and yet they allow for them to believe the lie about Santa Claus. I have said this before on this board, I do not lie to my children about Santa Claus. How do I expect them to trust me if I were to lie to them during the most impressionable years of their lives??

In fact, the learning that Santa Claus was not real also was one of the many catalysts in my questioning religion. If my parents can lie to me about this thing (however good their intentions were), why couldn't we (in general) have been lied to by the authors of the Bible?

I do believe we have a Creator because His laws are written on my heart. I don't need bibles to tell me the difference btw right and wrong. Cause and effect does a better job of enforcing it to me than a book does.

reply to post by asmeone2


I was raised as a Christian, when i was small i was sent to sunday school and ocassionally brought to church, but it didn't take long before i said that i didn't want to go anymore. I was then allowed to make my own choice about sunday school/ church attendance, i was never forced to go which i am very thankful for. I was allowed to accompany friends to their church services to see what others believed.

My gramdmother was Lutheran and i grew up hearing her say the Lord's prayer every night before she went to sleep, going to church every sunday, getting her ashes on ash wednesday, etc. She would tell me certain ways that she believed that i should behave to follow what God wanted, but it was never to force me, rather to expose me to her beliefs, to give me some kind of spiritual guidance. I can not remember my gramma even one time telling me that i would go to hell for something, she NEVER used scare tactics on me.

I believe in God and Jesus, however i am more of a spiritual person i have always had a problem with organized religion, even as a child. I have the occassional day that i have a desire to attend church, and because i was allowed to make my own choices when i do attend, i attend the church that is truely the church of my choice, the one with beliefs that i am most comfortable with.

When i had my sons i took them to sunday school, read them stories from the children's bible, told them about my beliefs. They really showed no interest in attending sunday school, so i stopped taking them and just answered their questions and exposed them to my beliefs. They have grown up to be fine young men and both believe in God and Jesus because they were allowed to make their own choices as what to believe in.

Now i have grandchildren and my son and i were doing the same with them. Last year when my grandaughter was six and started asking questions about what church was like and what it was for i answered her questions, She starting asking on a regular basis if she could go to church, so i took her because she showed an interest and it was her choice. Even though i personally don't care to attend church on a regular basis, i take her and her brother because they have a desire to go, my son is unable to take them as he has to work on sundays.

So in my opinion yes there is a way to raise children to have a spiritual side, and believe, or not in a higher being without forcing religion down their throats. I believe it is actually better for them as it allows them to make their own choices freely. There are too many people out there that believe in something, not because they have made that choice on their own, but because it was forced upon them and they know no other way.

When it comes down to it you have to raise your children as you see fit, just as your mother raised you as she saw fit. You may want to remind her of that fact.

Originally posted by chise61When it comes down to it you have to raise your children as you see fit, just as your mother raised you as she saw fit. You may want to remind her of that fact.

Very well put You make an excellent point (just remember OP to be respectful when telling her. After all she is your momma and did what she thought was best).

reply to post by justamomma


We don't teach our children santa.
For the reasons you said.

reply to post by justamomma


I remember my younger sister asked my mom if santa was real. When she was told no, she thought for a moment and said, What about Jesus?