UFOs: Flying Emotions

So what's wrong here? Why is it that so many members of the UFO community feel that they need to be bullies? Yes, I'll freely admit that many scientists are dismissive of the UFO hypothesis — often to the point of ridicule. I can understand the frustration occasioned by that. "I don't get no respect" can be a legitimate plaint, and I'm sure that some UFO proponents feel that pain.

Nonetheless, if after 60 years of claims, the only way that those who believe we're hosting extraterrestrials can make their point is by wielding the blunt weapon of personal attack, then the whole issue has gone off the rails. I'm willing to listen, and — believe it or not — you could convince me with decent evidence. After all, I happen to think that extraterrestrial intelligence is a frequent occurrence in a universe of ten thousand million million million stars. SOURCE

The conversation about this should be interesting...

I still want to hear about your grandfathers experience with an Alien SC. You mentioned it once in a thread and I've been curious to here about it since. Can't remember the aliens name though. I did send you a U2U but seemed to have ignored it.

Sorry to go off-topic straight away, but I thought add that in.

To answer your initial post, I kind of think the reverse is true. It's the UFOlogists that cop the hard end of the stick from the scientists etc. As they say, when you can't attack the evidence, attack the person. I guess it's just human nature.

Anyway, what are your beliefs on your posted material? Perhaps you can get the ball rolling with your own views?

IRM

I think Shostak is a decent fellow, although I find his article to be a bit hypocritical:

I can do that based on the methodology, the reported data, and (to be brutally frank) the reputation of the investigator and their professional affiliation.

Seth admits that it's normal to take reports more seriously based on their reputation and education credentials. Funny because that was always the best form of evidence in my own mind and the UFO phenomenon has plenty of just that:

J. Allen Hynek:

In 1931, Hynek received a B.S. from the University of Chicago. In 1935, he completed his Ph.D. in astrophysics at Yerkes Observatory. He joined the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Ohio State University in 1936. He specialized in the study of stellar evolution and in the identification of spectroscopic binaries.

Jacques Valle:

He received his Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics from the Sorbonne, followed by his Master of Science in astrophysics from the University of Lille. He began his professional life as an astronomer at the Paris Observatory in 1961. In 1967, Vallée received a Ph.D. in computer science from Northwestern University

Clyde Tombaugh:

Following his discovery of Pluto, Tombaugh earned astronomy degrees from the University of Kansas and Northern Arizona University. He worked at the White Sands Missile Range in the early 1950s, and taught astronomy at New Mexico State University from 1955 until his retirement in 1973.

Paul R. Hill:

Hill received his B.S. in Mechanical Engineering with Aeronautics Option (Specialty) from the University of California, Berkeley in 1936. He also participated in graduate courses at the University of Virginia Extension during his employment with NACA, but considered himself primarily self-educated in mathematics and analysis.

Paul was so smart he basically dropped out of college at a certain point and educated himself..

[edit] Supervised sections of Applied Materials and Physics Division
Aerospace Mechanics Branch: Included orbital and other analytical mechanics, space navigation, horizon physics measurements for spacecraft orientation, re-entry problems.
Aerothermochemistry Branch: Included ultra-high-speed fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, material combustion and erosion, atmospheric contamination.
Chemistry and Physics Branch: Spacecraft materials with emphasis on plastics for spacecraft application, Radiation Physics Lab.
Flight Projects Branch: Operated all of LRC’s rocket-vehicle flights out of Wallops Island, Cape Kennedy, and Vandenberg AFB
Propulsion Branch: Handled all of NASA’s in-house research on solid fuel rocket motors.
Space Environment Branch: Operated satellites to measure meteoroid impact rates and penetration rates as a function of material thickness. Research on meteorite shielding with ground-based simulation guns. Operated large vacuum facilities at liquid helium temperatures to simulate the vacuum of outer space. Spacecraft materials and mechanisms tested under combined vacuum and solar radiation.
Spacecraft Systems Branch: Emphasis on manned systems for space stations, space laboratories, and interplanetary missions. Included research on space-erectable and inflatable structures, underwater astronaut space simulations, regenerative life support systems with a closed environmental test chamber, and a control laboratory for research on gyroscopic control of spacecraft.

Sorry for the long external quote. That is just the beginning. If you don't know who Paul R. Hill is read his wiki page.

Hermann Oberth:

Hermann Julius Oberth (June 25, 1894 – December 28, 1989) was a Austro-Hungarian-born, German (Transylvanian Saxon) physicist, and, along with the Russian Konstantin Tsiolkovsky and the American Robert Goddard, one of the founding fathers of rocketry and astronautics.

So what the heck is Shostak talking about?? The above list is nowhere near complete but I think everyone gets the point! We are talking about PhDs, professors at major universities, pioneering researchers in aeronautics, pioneering researchers in rocketry, pioneering researchers in space station technology, the individual who discovered Pluto, pioneering researchers of flying platforms (which led to the Lunar Excursion Module design....

You know what Seth? You wouldn't get chastised by the ufo community if you could write an article which wasn't glaringly prejudice and hypocritical.


Sources:

The above information on those esteemed individuals was taken from wikipedia.

I agree and he said he uses the scientific method in his analysis of data..... well the scientific method requires "objectivity" not "subjectivity". By admitting he takes the authors social status of the source material into account he is admitting that he is not objective and is completely biased (subjective).

What douche....

Sleestak go home!!!!!

-Euclid

[edit on 7-8-2008 by euclid]

i think that a skeptic should be very clear about weather or not they take into account the testemony of another individual right off the bat!

dont waste the time of someone who is giving a heart felt testemony about a close encounter with an alien craft in the woods in which his hand was placed on it and he observed it for 45 minutes and is still telling the same story nearly 30 years later IF YOUR NOT GOING TO BELIEVE a dang thang thats said via hear say..just get it out of the way now.

thats why emotions get sucked into play,the believer is blind sided by speaking in normal regular english language, only to be methodically and tactfully denied..that must suck.

then they bash the skeptic for dabling in complex scientific inquiry with a closed minded approach which insults the scientist.

bill nye was attacked hard on CNN because it seemed like he had an opportunity to sway and he didnt take it. and that frustrated the men. my opinion. it was weird when the words of these men would penetrate bill nye and you can see him go bull headed in order to not show his interest in the testemony, it frustrated me too.

Again i will say that kindness needs to be emphasized when dealing with skeptics and believers. kindness kindness kindness. otherwise were just making the day that much more "typical" to eachother.