a draft would be the best thing for this generation, page 2

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reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:08 AM by Magnivea

reply to post by Sleuth

Really? What about how we always hear that the elders fought for our freedom and we have to fight for the freedom of future generations. Doesn't that mean we are secure in our freedom, we need to worry about our kids'? Not to sound callous towards future generations, and I do agree with you to a point, but pick one.

Also, I really hope that "troops" comment wasn't directed at me. I'm so sick of the "support our troops" crap when nothing has been said about them. As a matter of fact, I'm sure you can look around this forum and find at least a dozen instances where people flatly state that they're talking about the government and not the troops, then someone comes in and accuses them of not supporting our troops.

So here it is, as a belated disclaimer: I support the people of our military in whatever country they are in, whatever their assignment.

Now go buy some more ribbon and flag magnets where 10 cents of every dollar goes to a "defense contractor."

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:46 AM by Fathom

reply to post by Sleuth

BRAVO! best post of the day!
I than you for writing down exactly what I was thinking. I totally agree with you.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:20 AM by jtma508

Slothrop... so it's YOU we have to thank for putting this criminla in the whitehouse? Good job. So the most patriotic thing you've done is trample the Constitution by proxy and destroy America's reputation internationally. Not tomention our economy at home? Way to go. Let's hope there are few like you out there.

Vietnam was a sham. Like our current wars, it was a war for profit. Period. Stop Coimmunism? Noble lie? What the hell are you on? Since when does the government have a right to lie to its citizens in order to undertake a war at those citizens' expense that they allegedly 'don't understand'? Are you presuming that our 'elected officials' are more inmtelligent thatn the rest of us? If you do, look around. The evidence that you are deluded is all around. Wake up!

Vietnam War was to stop the spread of Communism? I heard that story as well. Same playbook that the government is using now on their equally bogus 'War on Terror'. With 'nam it was 'If we don't stop them in Vietnam we'll be fighting them in the streets at home'. Well, news alert, we lost that war some 40yrs ago and I've yet to see the commies attacking us. As a matter of fact, China, the largest communist entity in the world is loaning us obscene amounts of money so Bush et all can 'save us from the terrorists'. What a cruel joke.

You don't get it do you? Most wars are about profiteering. Research the war hero Smedley Butler from WWI. See what he has to say about it. We wage war on a country (expend vast amounts of energy and materiels at taxpayers ' expense) sold by private companies to the war machine. We rebuild the attacked country afterwards (at taxpayers' expense) through US companies that make huge profits. Then we rebuild and re arm the 'new' goverment's military (at huge profits to US companiesl, again at taxpayers' expense).

It amazes me how many people have drunk so much koolaide. If people don't wake up we are all truly screwed .

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:26 AM by roxaz

Originally posted by Slothrop
i see and hear a lot of paranoia these days about the government instituting another draft. in my mind, a draft would be about the best thing for the current generation of american kids.

ever since vietnam, which was a necessary if unpopular war, american democracy has been debased until it has become no more than a tyranny of the masses. the government is now expected to bow down to popular cowardices and feelings of entitlement. we have welfare and food stamps, but no compulsory service to one's country.

an entire generation of americans is involved in their country in theory only, playing world of warcraft or writing blogs from the safety of basement rooms while the world grows more dangerous day by day.

these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way.

yeah, way to go, cool! (claps) also americans should learn to keep their Dick (Cheney) and other criminal idiots in american pants. all those crackpots will affect everyone world wide and what you think would be good for americans will be the beginning of the end (nah, im not religious). you should think about what you wish because you may get it.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:27 AM by Spock Shock

Some of the best countries are the ones that have mandatory military service, really keeps their citizens in line with helping one another...

But yup, thats the problem with this country, too much tv, video games, so little solving of actual world problems, the street villians are take'n over....

Even here in Canada everyday I see more hoods and thugs on the street, gangs, stabbings murders and everything... even a drive by shooting a few months back, and these people are getting away with it because nobody dares to walk around outside now, the whole countrys getting lazy...

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:32 AM by dariousg

Just wondering if you really thought this out or not.

Why doesn't the draft work? Well, first off, you WON'T get what you are looking for. Men and women who will develop a sense of honor and pride for their country. You will get people who feel they are being forced into the military just like the communists did. Well, it doesn't work. People who are forced to fight wars on foreign soil when they didn't want to be in service in the first place leads to dissention and low moral. EXACTLY WHAT this country does NOT NEED.

I understand your thoughts behind this but you just didn't take into consideration the psychology behind it. The reason these kids are doing what you say they are is because of the corporate machine that currently rules the world. Big business. It's about selling and the things you described are what they sell. They pay off politicians across the globe to promote their products. That's why they do what they do. We have been 'taught' to be reclusive and to play games all day and such.

And you think a draft will fix this? LOL

Sorry, I don't think you have the solution here at all. You will simply hasten a revolution which means that those kids will be forced to fight but this time they will be doing it to survive.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:42 AM by dariousg

Originally posted by Slothrop
reply to post by krill

why exactly was vietnam a necessary war ? i assume you do know that the gulf of tonkin incident that brought us in to the war was a staged false flag operation and has been admited as such. so why was it necessary again?

the gulf of tonkin incident was an example of a noble lie. it was necessary to convince the american people to enter a war whose purpose they wouldn't readily be able to understand.

vietnam was absolutely necessary to stop the spread of communism and protect us interests in southeast asia. it's easy to deny now that communism was a real menace, but people who were around then and even those of us who weren't but who do understand geopolitical strategy and reality understand that the us vs the communists was a war of survival that needed to be won by any necessary means.

And what, per se, is China? Please answer me why the largest communist country on the globe has done nothing of what you are claiming would have happened if we didn't enter Vietnam? You see, it makes no sense. It's a different view and our government needed a reason to create more military assets and to generate money. That's all it was. It's a joke if you honestly have not done your research.

Noble lie. I love that. Yet another great oxymoron that I have seen today.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:46 AM by dariousg

Originally posted by Slothrop
reply to post by apolluwn

Our draft is not set up that way. It is as simple as that.

you're aware we don't presently have a draft? when we implement a new one, we can set it up any way we want.

of course people are allowed to disagree with the government. they can think, speak and vote however they please. but they should also be required to spend time serving their country in one way or another when they come of age. it's in the best interest of both the country and the development of the individual citizens.

Okay, I see a little clearer what you are saying. Either military or government service. However, do you realize how many people our government currently employs?

14.5 million.

Yes, that many. Now, do me a favor. Take the top 20 large corporations on this planet and add them all up. Let me know what you come up with.

And you want these people to be forced into government employment that gets paid by the taxpayers. What, push the income tax to 60% just so we can do what you are suggesting?

Are you seeing what I am trying to say yet?

First, you will get people who will dissent. Then you will get the civilians who have to foot this bill who will dissent. Then you get a new government the hard and bloody way.

Not good.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:50 AM by Jenna

Can't really decide if I would agree or disagree with having a draft.. I wouldn't for the simple fact that our all volunteer military works. Those who are in want to be there. As most know my hubby is in the military, I most certainly would not want some snot-nosed kid who doesn't want to be there and doesn't give a crap being the one guarding his back. I would much rather have someone who volunteered and wants to be there be the one keeping an eye out.

On the other hand, I would agree if I thought for one second that it would cause all the self-absorbed children who care about nothing and no one to wake up for five seconds and realize that there are more important things going on in this world than who Billy wants to take to prom or who Susie thinks is cute. The parents in this country are raising a bunch of idiots honestly. Not all of them, but most care nothing about anyone and are too busy finding ways to rebel.

Honestly though, I don't think it would work.. Half of the people who attempt to enlist aren't qualified anyway because they have felonies or medical issues. Even with a draft that won't change. The only thing that will change is that they will be turning away more people who aren't qualified and may not have enough time in the day to enlist the ones who are qualified and do want in.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 08:56 AM by dariousg

reply to post by Sleuth

This is more like it. However, if you read my posts you will see why the draft fails. At least, it will fail during times of war like right now. Especially when the war is viewed as an illegitimate war like Iraq. However, service does instill, in most, a sense of pride and discipline. The only problem with this discipline, from my own experience, is that they do perform a good bit of brainwashing during basic training. You are told to completely follow orders no matter what. To support your government and so on. Many come out of the service with blinders on and that is the biggest drawback I can see from forced military service.

However, we are seeing a serious decline in our youth and their desire to get out there and grab hold of whats left of the American dream. The thanks for that falls to the people that blindly support big business who pushes the video games and such onto our youth.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:07 AM by namehere

instead of a military draft, lets revive militias in states and arm them, with only 1 goal; to defend the homeland; no foreign operations... ?

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:07 AM by Durrilll

Killing is wrong even if your government gives you permission to do so. Through choice alone the whole world could live in peace. There is no need for a draft, or a military, or war, or anything that infringes on the free will of others.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Durrilll]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:27 AM by whaaa

Drafting todays youth with thier attitudes would have the NCOs in their barracks hiding, out praying for protection from the newely drafted thugs.

Right, give thugs even more guns. Great idea!!

Slothrop, I think that you are stuck in some ideological 1950s time warp.

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house!!

[edit on 7-8-2008 by whaaa]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:32 AM by Jenna

Originally posted by Durrilll
There is no need for a draft, or a military, or war, or anything that infringes on the free will of others.

That's a noble thought, but honestly it isn't true. There will always be a military in most if not all countries, there will always be wars, and there will always be someone who infringes on the free will of others. The only option we have is either have a military, or be cannon fodder and target practice for countries that don't like us.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:32 AM by jerico65

Originally posted by spines
You are SO right!

The best thing for me (and my generation) would be the opportunity to patriotically...get shot in the face.

Look on the bright side: You get to shoot others in the face, too!

Originally posted by spinesWhat kind of person wants to force me and my friends to die? And for what; so those that manage to live/avoid the draft can 'build some character'?

Well, you pay attention in training and you and your friends don't die. Kinda simple how that works.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:36 AM by mastermind77

a draft would be murder. The best thing for this and all countries.

Pull out of Iraq.

Dissect the agencies that allow socialist and fascist control in a liberty based constitutional republic called..ehem ..America.

stop the war on drugs

develop free energy/transport as a norm for the world

stop oppression and tyranny via technology and taking the upper hand.

Educate the undulating masses

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:37 AM by jerico65

Originally posted by Magnivea
Really, it just seems to me that it would help me to learn to submit to whatever someone with more money than myself decides I should be doing.

Well, sorry to pop your bubble, but everyone does that. Where do you work? I bet you have a boss telling you what to do there.

Self employed? Great, you are your own boss, but do you pay taxes? Yep, that's just someone else telling you what to do.

I don't think anyone can escape that.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:40 AM by adrenochrome

reply to post by Slothrop

are you kidding me? well, this is to be expected from an admitted Satanist... Slothrop, you're totally headed in the wrong direction man, unless you're a Freemason, which i think you said you also support... it's time to wake up, brother

but for now, you're simply a "Foe"

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 09:40 AM by jerico65

Originally posted by whaaa
Drafting todays youth with thier attitudes would have the NCOs in their barracks hiding, out praying for protection from the newely drafted thugs.

Right, give thugs even more guns. Great idea!!

Slothrop, I think that you are stuck in some ideological 1950s time warp.

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house!!

Well, I'm an NCO, and I don't have any fear of a thug, even one with a gun.

And besides, even the draft of WW2 didn't allow people with records to be drafted.

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