9/11...There's no point to it anymore.

Here it is. My first time back on ATS, and guess what? More posts about 9/11 conspiracies. But moreover, more posts about 9/11 conspiracies relaying the same thing over and over and over again. Little internet fights are seen all over the place, mostly the same people trying to do the other in with some newfound supposed technique to trick the other into contradicting him or herself.

How is the Truth Movement supposed to squeak out if no one can convey their ideas clearly? How can the Official Story shed any light if the same people convey their ideas just as opaquely as the other guy?

Just go home. Pack up and leave. There's no point in the argument anymore. No matter how many people get up and form protests or lunch meetings or new websites or new theories, it's all the same old shtick.

I understand the negativity of my statements, but does the JFK Assassination look like it's going to unravel due to some random FOIA request or a government leak? No. (And think about how many people had to have been "in on it" back then. It STILL has yet to be proven or dismissed). Is Leonard Peltier going to be given a fair trial or a pardon? Are the Sudanese ever going to get any help? These issues are best just swept under the rug and forgotten about. The Associated Press releases an article about ASCE members internal disagreements with small inconsistencies within the explanations of the WTC's and the levees during Katrina, and it falls down the memory hole. I saw an article about some important political figure's grandfather on his deathbed, mumbling something to the tune of JFK's murder being rigged from start to finish. Did that article get even close to front page? No.

Why the fighting? It doesn't matter anymore. The government will take no actions to help anyone figure it out. That chance was lost when Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich dropped due to failure to retain popularity. America is built on instant gratification, so electing tools like John McCain or Barack Obama to fix gas prices and decrease or increase unemployment rates is great for the majority of Americans whose attention spans are equivalent to that of a French horn's.

It's over. We lose and the top levels of the hierarchy win. That's the way it's been for years, it's just that no one wants to think of it this way. Our government has left us behind. We work to make others rich. Instant gratification is so rewarding when you think of it this way. Solving 9/11's many gleaming problems isn't on many priority lists. 9/11 is that one piece of homework that didn't matter if it was completed or not. 9/11 is that last item on the grocery list that you remembered when you got home. It has sat with many Americans at the helm of the terrorists since it has been done.

There is a decline in participation. A certain stagnation which stagnates and rots with every repeated phrase, every repeated notion.

So it's all over. We all lose. Believers, non-believers, Communists, Socialists, Republicans, Democrats, Christians, Buddhists, lawmakers and anarchists all lose equally for believing in a system that doesn't believe in them. The next time some catastrophic event occurs, the same thing will happen. Curiosity, inquisition, delusion and eventually, failure to bring the event to light. History repeats all over again.

To some extent, I agree with you.

However, by digging in to 9/11, it will hopefully make people more aware of the next stunt that they try to pull on us.

I applaud the people who won't let 9/11 go, despite the challenges that they face.

Anyway, it's a way for lots of us to pass our time, so it's not going to lose its interest just yet.

No, I refuse to give up the good fight. I believe much is still hidden about the truth of that day and to turn my back on what I believe is to betray my own soul.

It's true we may be in a lull, but all it takes is for one thread to come loose, one seam to fray and the web of deceit will unravel, The truth of that day will be known.

I won't give up the search, hell I hope I'm the one to find the loose thread or frayed seam.

Well good sir, I salute you. You certainly seem to have more patience than I. If only there were others who would dig so deeply instead of scratching the surface just to get a leg up on "this one guy who's busting my chops on this thread".

Originally posted by OMW24
Just go home. Pack up and leave. There's no point in the argument anymore.

It's over. We lose and the top levels of the hierarchy win. That's the way it's been for years, it's just that no one wants to think of it this way. Our government has left us behind. We work to make others rich.

9/11 is an old debate.

The elite did it to remain in power.

Just give up guys.

I did.

Now I just want more FREE money from the government. That first stimulous check really hit the spot. I want more FREE money. Don't you guys?

More FREE money.

More FREE money.

More FREE money.

More FREE money.

More FREE money.

More FREE money.

Originally posted by mrwupy
No, I refuse to give up the good fight. I believe much is still hidden about the truth of that day and to turn my back on what I believe is to betray my own soul.

Belief is one thing. Evidence is another thing entirely. For example, creationism is based on beliefs. Evolution is based on evidence.

Have you ever questioned your "beliefs?"

Yes I have to agree with both of you.

Its a war in here, with the truth movement and the disinforments.

It is almost impossible to talk about anything 911 with out being Harrass or insulted by a paid disinformant.

Some of these guy are very good at what they do, they are train very well.

All we can do is keep trying.

Originally posted by cashlink
Yes I have to agree with both of you.

Its a war in here, with the truth movement and the disinforments.

It is almost impossible to talk about anything 911 with out being Harrass or insulted by a paid disinformant.

Some of these guy are very good at what they do, they are train very well.

All we can do is keep trying.

It must be fun to live a life unburdened by reality, eh?

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by mrwupy
No, I refuse to give up the good fight. I believe much is still hidden about the truth of that day and to turn my back on what I believe is to betray my own soul.

Belief is one thing. Evidence is another thing entirely. For example, creationism is based on beliefs. Evolution is based on evidence.

Have you ever questioned your "beliefs?"

Daily.

Sometimes I even change my mind.

It's a very important part of discovering the truth.

Today I have these facts and believe this, tomorrow I have a few more facts and though I believe the same I am just a wee bit smarter on the subject. The next day I learn even more and my whole opinion is open for debate.

The topic of discussion here is, "9/11...There's no point in it anymore."

I disagree.

As long as we keep seeking the truth, those that decieve us will always be on the guard. They'll slip up on occasion too.

It is not wrong to seek the truth. It is only wrong to stop searching when you think you have found it.

reply to post by OMW24


Your post reminded me of something I posted several months ago in response to a thread of a similar nature. I'm reposting it here because I think it's relevant...

_____________________________________________________________

I believe that opinions on the events of that day are intensely personal to each of us.

I believe that our fighting with each other day in and day out in an effort to "beat the truth" into each other is ultimately futile and unproductive.

I believe that a concensus between sides on what actually happened that day is unattainable.

I believe that the wars of thought and belief being waged daily on ATS are but a microcosm of the real wars being waged throughout the world today.

I believe that no matter what happened on that fateful day, the world is in a much worse position because of it.

I believe that the people of this world are facing obstacles which could possibly make that day seem utterly insignificant by comparison.

I believe that shifting our focus toward what stands before us is vastly more important than this endless argument over that which has already passed us by.

reply to post by jthomas


Ya I am sure you would know about that LOL.

You are the reason why I wont be leaveing 911 alone.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not saying "don't worry about it anymore", but I am saying that it's futile to carry out verbal wars that lead to nothing. It's made a profound impact on our society today, and in a negative way, I agree. But it's best to keep it on a personal level. There is no use for mass discussions. It's endless. There are too many hungry people out there just waiting for an opportunity to punce on someone with false information. It's turned into idiocy is what's happened, and now there's no changing it.

During the anti-war movement in the 60's people just stopped co-operating with the government. I think we are going to see more of that happening again.

As fascism ramps up in the society with out of control police forces and increased surveillance of the average citizen, people will start to come together in organisations designed to protect themselves from their opressors. We will see the sowing of the seeds of a renewed American democracy.

What we have now is the preliminary stages of either another civil war or a popular insurrection. I saw a phrase the other day in print, referring to an American "cold" civil war. The hot war hasn't started yet, but in the cold war phase every provocation puts kindling on the pile. One day a spark will come.

Incidents like Waco and Ruby Ridge are symptoms. These are signs of a polarization of American public opinion. 9/11 is a burr in the saddle that just keeps irritating. It's not going away. More and more people are getting fed up. They are not going back to the middle ages where oligarchs could do whatever they pleased and everybody else was just along for the ride.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by ipsedixit]

I can understand what the OP is saying. The 9/11 argument is getting a little stale with the same points being made over and over and over again. It does get tiring. That being saids, I will never let 9/11 go. Never.

Because of 9/11 we have Domestic Spying, The Patriot Act, Patriot Act 2, Legalized Torture, Secret Prison Systems, the term "enemy combatant" and countless other things that all came about as a direct result of 9/11. By exposing the lie of 9/11 everything else begins to unravel. You begin to see the agenda and the way it gets implemented. Exposing the lie of 9/11 is just like the Wizard of Oz when they pull the curtain back and find out that the big bad wizard is really just some annoying little guy and everything they thought they knew was really just a lie that was based on lies and resulted in more lies.

I read an article a few years ago written by a psychologist. The bottom line is that people who stick to conspiracy theories after years and years of no evidence, like jfk and 911, actuall suffer a form of mental illness.

These people have a need of self importance and a need to feel they are better than most people and are in the know about things the average person cannot understand. Furthermore, these people have spent so much time and in some cases alot of money on their fantasies.

The best proof of this theory is what I have read and heard many conspiracy people say that begins with "No amount of evidence will ever convince me ....."

Originally posted by mrwupy

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by mrwupy
No, I refuse to give up the good fight. I believe much is still hidden about the truth of that day and to turn my back on what I believe is to betray my own soul.

Belief is one thing. Evidence is another thing entirely. For example, creationism is based on beliefs. Evolution is based on evidence.

Have you ever questioned your "beliefs?"

Daily.

Sometimes I even change my mind.

It's a very important part of discovering the truth.

That's the difference between you and jthomas.

When you have no interest in the truth, it's not necessary to question your beliefs or change your mind.

Debunkers are never bothered with complexities.

Originally posted by cashlink
Yes I have to agree with both of you.

Its a war in here, with the truth movement and the disinforments.

It is almost impossible to talk about anything 911 with out being Harrass or insulted by a paid disinformant.

Some of these guy are very good at what they do, they are train very well.

All we can do is keep trying.

This is an excellent example of why the 9-11 CT has failed. As far as the ‘battle’, it’s over. 9-11 CT’ers have had ample time to provide a cohesive narrative and have failed.

The stated excuse? Because “they” (FBI, CIA, NSIT, FAA, FAA radar operators, Firefighters, Police, Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, Marines, Coastguardsmen, first responders, eye witnesses, family members of those lost, NASA, NRO, Jonny-on-the-spot good Samaritans, to name but a few) are in on it.

What some are celebrating, and others are lamenting, is the conclusion of the Inflationary Model. Basically, all CTs go through this.

As critical questions are asked, the CT inflates beyond it’s original assertion(s) to account for – frankly – basic questions it can’t answer, nor provide a plausible explanation for. Once the CT inflates, a new series of questions are asked, now taking into account the now ‘grander’ CT. This process repeats itself until (literally) every one who dares disagree is "in on it".

With each inflation, the CT sheds those who are truly inquisitive as the weight of implausibility stretches the bounds of known reality. As the CT looses supporters, the criticism becomes more intense as the pool of doubters grows.

As the CT continues to inflate and become more marginalized (“fringe” if you will) the only ones left are those diehard few who (as evidenced by this very forum) repeat the same charges over and over and over again to an ever shrinking audience.

9-11 Ct’ers are going to be (if not already) in the same category as all other false conspiracy theories. That is, making appearances on Coast to Coast, selling DVD’s, running web sites and making posts on internet forums.

So, here we are. Instead of acknowledging the failure of the CT, it’s because of “them”. For goodness sake, we have people already spoiling for the next CT!

Open your eyes. The 9-11 CTs are no different than all the other (false) CTs. The final step of all CTs involve the few remaining foot soldiers proclaiming their wisdom over all the 'sheep' and declaring their readiness for the next attempt by “them” to hood-wink us.


[edit on 7-8-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

Originally posted by dirtonwater
I read an article a few years ago written by a psychologist. The bottom line is that people who stick to conspiracy theories after years and years of no evidence, like jfk and 911, actuall suffer a form of mental illness.

Strange that the second JFK Commission even admitted there was a conspiracy.

The true mental illness is denial:

9/11 Truth vs The Power of Denial

Americans are quickly coming to a historical fork in the road.They will either deal with what's wrong...or get steam rolled by it. 9/11 Truth is the ultimate wake up pill. Will our citizens take their Red Pill?

At your local Catholic school they teach the students that premarital sex is wrong. So, as the school year progresses into spring, one young female student (we'll call her Libby) starts to look like she's gaining weight. People all start to notice Libby's belly, but nobody ever says a word to Libby about it. After 8 months of school, the End of School Dance takes place. Everybody's there... teachers, students, nuns, priests and Libby. For 4 hours, everybody stares at Libby's belly when she's not looking and they whisper as she walks by. When Libby approaches a new set of her pals they all grow quiet. She says "Hello" and the students all look her directly in the eyes... refusing to glance down at her big belly, to acknowledge she's 2 weeks away from delivery. They make small talk. They ask her if she'll see any concerts this summer... they ask her how she did on the algebra final, they ask her how her older brother is doing at college. But when Libby takes here hand and strokes her belly, they all shift there eyes around the room and start pretending that they are now suddenly into the song that's playing. To publicly address Libby's condition is to acknowledge she's had sex... and we all know that's wrong.

9/11 Truth is the pregnant girl at the dance. And, Americans just can't bring themselves to acknowledge out loud, that their government has had sex.

Denial is powerful,.. Just as the alcoholic wakes up on the couch hungover and has to dispose of the bottles of evidence on the floor... Most Americans are still more likely to help throw the bottles away than face the hard truth that their friend has a drinking problem.

Or even worse is Battered Wife Syndrome and the fear of the unknown. Libby's had her baby and she and her baby live in a run down shack with the baby's father. Everyday he comes home drunk and verbally abuses her... she does nothing...then the abuse turns to the occasional slap or shove across the room... Her inner voice says somethings wrong, but then, her denial kicks in and she thinks " I'll turn him around, you just watch" ... but the abuse doesn't stop. In fact, it keeps getting worse. Now a few of her friends suggest Libby leave with her baby. But she has nowhere to go and is afraid of surviving on her own. Then, he comes home and really beats her up good... the cops are called and he's taken to jail. But again, her denial kicks in and she drops the charges. As she is applying makeup over her bruises she begins to cry. She tells herself that she has to leave, but where can she go? How will she live? She has no money, no job, the fear of the unknown is GREATER than her fear of this man. Unfortunately, the next beating he gives her, puts her in the hospital and when she awakens, her friends are there pleading with her to leave him...what will she do?

Most Americans know that something is terribly wrong with their Government. 9/11 truth is the bruises they're trying to put makeup over. After all, to completely acknowledge 9/11 truth, is to publicly proclaim that a divorce is NECESSARY. Well, that would mean at the very least, some sort of partial (hopefully non violent) revolution... and that Complete Unknown, is still far more scarier to them, than the bruises on their face.

Bottom Line... I work in the media (radio, 28 years now) I have been unplugged from the matrix of lies for about 4 years now. That's what happens when you tumble down the 9/11 truth rabbit hole...you simply stop believing what the talking heads on your 72-inch flat screen are saying! You come to understand that you yourself, ARE the harbinger of change. And the only thing worse than being ridiculed for speaking out...is saying nothing at all. I really don't post much... a few websites on occasion... but I do have a big mouth

reply to post by GoldenFleece



Second JFK Comission? Can you post a link so I can read up on this?

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar


I hope I didnt insult you, but what I said in my statement is true.

There are to many Government disinforments in all the 911 threads.

I dont know if you have ever done any research in key-board OPS.

But I have and they are in these 911 threads

Trying to talk about 911 in any of these thread, I see we are always under attack! and it is ALWAYS by some one trying to Cram the Government Conspiracies therories down our throats nothing but lies that dose not stand up to hard Science.

If people are blind to think the Government dose not pay 1,000s of people a day to rail-road blogs & forums on the 911 subject then you are not liveing in reality.

If it is true that our own Government pulled off 911 then they will do what every they need to do to keep the real truth from coming out.

That is why I see a War in all the 911 threads.
I see the same crap! the same sites, same sarcasm, the same degradeing remarks.

Theses paid disinfo use the "same" method in-fact it hard to tell if they are the same people useing diffrent Avatars.

Yes we are in a war the Truth V the liers