"It's Like Something Out Of The Third World"

Originally posted by gormly
So I should have to pay for your retarded decision to drink Mountain Dew for years? How is it that the "poor" seems to be synonomous with "stupid" when it comes to taking care of oneself? And don't give me the old crap line on how it's too expensive to buy the healthy stuff, last time I checked Mountain Dew was a wee bit more expensive than water.

How did "dental" even get into this discussion, I don't have "dental" and I sure as # wouldn't qualify for free dental if there was free dental in my state based on my income (and yet a dentist bill still hurts my family budget) Why should a guy like you who drinks liquid sugar and doesn't brush his teeth after each can (yes.. that would fix the problem) get FREE dental while I do not?

Ick you are an elitist, not all poor people eat badly and lay about on their arses. The fact you could just make such a blanket statement is shocking.

Originally posted by gormly
That is what Universal Health care is my friends.. FREE to some, subsidized by others. I was poor once.. I got an education, worked hard and now I am lower/middle class with all the trappings that come with it. Why, after all my years of hard work, should I pay for YOUR teeth and still have to pay for mine?

Please clarify, is universal healthcare different to socialised healthcare? Because socialised healthcare is for everyone here int he UK, no one pays for it other than their taxes. I'll tell you why you should pay, because it actually saves the government money having a system like the NHS instead of a private insurance based model.

Originally posted by gormly
I'll gladly help pay for some kid with no parent, glady pay for a single mom who works two jobs, but you? Sorry, I draw the line at people who can actually provide for themselves. get off your ass, stop drinking MD, brush your teeth and get a second job (or a better first job)

Again ignorance. Some people are already at their threshhold of possible income, they can't go to college because they are already working so hard there isn't any spare time. I'm not one of those people i should add i'm just well aware of the realities.

Originally posted by gormly
As far as Universal Health Care goes...

Although I 100%, no better yet, 1000% agree that the absolute needy should be taken care of (and yes all of you lying jerkoffss.. America does that) I do NOT feel like your #ty lifestyle decisions should be a burden on my personal income and work ethic.

Really america does that huh? So what aobut the hundreds, nay thousands of stories and personal accounts of people who were thrown out of hospitals when they couldn't pay? they were often dumped at free clinics, often run by charities.

Originally posted by gormly
I am freaking tired of you boneheads overlooking the free healthcare in this country already. When I was poor a dozen years ago, I received FREE heath care. I broke my leg and had internal bleeding from an accident.

I did not pay a DIME, not one dime.

You got lucky because it isn't always that way. Whist the government says they'll cover anything i have read multiple accouns where they tried to charge desperate people. In a social healthcare system, this doesn't happen.

Originally posted by gormly
Granted.. the level of care needs to be substancially raised and the system needs overhauling no doubt but the constant drumbeat of BULL# needs to stop so we can actually move forward.

I'm confused, you keep extolling the virtues of your system and then say it needs a lot of work. The socialised system here in the UK isn't perfect either, however it is a lot better i think after having experienced it. The good thing about social healthcare is that the doctors don't have to consult insurance companies before they get things done. They can concentrate ont he best care for the patient and the patient doesn't have to worry about the bill and can concentrate on getting well.

Originally posted by gormly
To those who aren't from America.. SCREW YOU.

Ick, so because i'm not from america my opinion is absolutely pointless? Even though i've experienced a socialised system and so may have some insight? You talk about ignorance and come out with that statement, amazing.

Originally posted by gormly
You have no idea what it is like over here, most of the responders to this thread are either ignorant parrots, outright lying or seriously exaggerating the situation.

Actually i am well versed in your system, have read an awful lot about it, know people who've been through it and so yeah i know enough to comment. If you knw anything about our system then please feel free to talk about it and we'll see how much you know and cover the issues.

Originally posted by gormly
There is plenty of FREE health care in America today. it is not perfect, it is not nationally organized, and it is not as specialized as pay care, but it is there. Every state, every city and almost every county in one form or another and better yet.. no insurance companies are involved.

Yep you do have some, but every year people often slip through the cracks and get no care. Also people without emergency problems are often completely overlooked. That's the difference in a pirvate healthcare and a socialised healthcare system. Social healthcare cncentrates on quality of life, private healthcare concentrates on quality of life for those that can pay, and just being alive for those that can't.

Originally posted by gormly
America does not have FREE health insurance. There is a difference.
Health insuracne gives you the freedom to pick and choose who you want to see, free care generally does not. Do you get worse care? That's certainly debateable but there IS CARE.

Here in the socialised system of the UK you can pick whoever you want to see. Honestly you just have to ask your doctor and you can see anyone, as long as the doctor you want to see isn't under any kind of investigation or disciplinary order.

Originally posted by gormly
STOP LYING YOU ARE ONLY MAKING IT WORSE.
Tell the truth warts and all

I'm speaking the truth, i'm talking fromt he point of view of someone who knows the social system very well. You should surely see all points of view before making up your mind, anything else is ignorance surely?

Originally posted by gormly
Do you honestly believe there would be no restrictions on who you could see, when, how you would "qualify" for what procedure? Do you honestly believe you'd just walk in, say something hurts and they'd whisk you away and run all the tests humanly possible at your say so?

Erm that's how socialised healthcare works i can promise you. I've had CT, MRI and other scans simply by insisting upon them.

Originally posted by gormly
This is why were have so many issues on so many levels,. the sheer amount of ignorance/trust in the government.. the same government I might add, that is CONSTANTLY being based on this very website and being blamed for killing innocents, drugging us, subverting us, following, recording and dicecting us.. this is the same government you all want running a universal health care program?

Well i've called the current UK government many of those things but lets be clear shall we. Whilst the government funds the NHS it is the doctors, nurses and managers who eventually decide how it's spent and how the care is given. So the government, whst infecting the organisation, has onlya small role in the actual care of patients.

Originally posted by gormly
I apologize for generally calling everone names here but this issue pisses me off, no one ever fixes anything, all we ever do is bitch about the other side (myself included)

Then stop bitching as you call it, write your congressman or state senator. I've done that, written my MP and local councillors.

Originally posted by gormly
I swear if someone (politician) actually TOLD the TRUTH once in a while I would follow that person to the end of the earth.

I'm very glad we can agree on something.

Things won't change until quality and affordable health care becomes the right of a countries citizens, not a corporations right to profit!

Well, Im coming to this conversation late so Im just going to throw my two cents out there.
Im a staunch libertarian as far as the economy is concerned. I hate seeing the government interfere with the medical sector or any industry at all. However, I've recently been swayed to universal healthcare for several reasons.

When people say "a freemarket solution would foster competition", youve got to think about it like its another service. Do police forces need more competition to make them perform well? What about fireman for that matter? Of course, there are public schools and private schools, but in that analogy, no one is calling for the shutdown of private MD practices. If you want to pay premium, no one is stopping you.

I for one am in the military and thus under TRICare(the Government health plan). I pay a small amount every month (in comparison to the extortionate amounts others pay) and have been VERY satisfied with it across the board (dental included). So when people say things, as I used to, like "look at Katrina-do you think the Gov Health can do any better than FEMA?" or such, yes TRIcare has flaws, but it supports several million people successfully - and if you dont like it, you can always get supplemental insurance.

Basically what Im getting at is, it just makes sense to have a national health care plan. The cost may spike initially, but in the long run, it will be well worth it.

PS, nice Guild Wars avatar Wotan. Ranger?

Originally posted by GruntOOrah

PS, nice Guild Wars avatar Wotan. Ranger?

Haha, very observant. Yes of course a ranger (Dana Hawkeye - Guild DVDF).

Sorry off topic.

the common man makes 7 dollars a hour. 40 hours a week 7x4=280-80 bucks for tax's=200.....200x4weeks is what? 800 dollars income. now read what it takes to live in america...and i give a low estimate
350 for rent
300 for food
100 for gas for car
150 for water and electric.
80 for diaper's
150 for kids school supllies.

there way there is never a way to save a dime..for the common American worker's...
if a family has a wife father and 2 kids or so.
one has to stay home and watch the kid's...unless she/he finds a way to make money at home..which is kinda hard..they are stuck in a endless rut.

it make's me sick sometimes when i watch tv...all the rich america's..donating money ect...to kid's in another country..when america is falling to apart.

This calculation bothers me...But maybe I am crazy.

With a salary like that I would (actually 'could') not have a second child (probably not even the first one!). I want my kid or kids to have a nice life...Not a life in poverty. So bringing children into this...Isn't that a choice people make?

"I have no money whatsoever...But let's take two kids and then complain it's so expensive!" I think this is a rather silly way of thinking. And of course I have thought of all those 'god fearing' people that just have to take kids because birth-control is the devil.

But this only reminded me of how silly one must be to believe in a god. The facts regarding this subject again show this...

Isn't the first step in getting/staying out of trouble not to have that second child? Or when you are in deep s*** already to not even have the first? And yes...I mean that with a salary like in the calculation here, you are in deep s***.

And please don't come with things like; 'but mankind? What about mankind, we must have kids otherwise it is all over!?'. It is not like all these people think about the well being of mankind when they f*** their brains out (again).

There are too much people on this little earth already, so we don't need kids that much...And certainly not when these kids grow up waiting for their teeth to get pulled at some free annual health care day.

I know this could sound a bit ignorant and maybe even mean...But please...Only do things you can afford! Or are condoms also very expensive?

What I do give you, beforetime, is that it's crazy there is so much help for children in (other) third world countries, while you're own country is suffering. Crazy! But usually when I say things like this...I am told that I am being crazy...

Also when I say that when Barack is president, the picture of a third world country is complete.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
This is no joke, we have a healthcare crisis in this country.

It is absolutely laughable that our government is willing to spend billions profiteering off of an illegal war but will not front a few billion to its own citizens.

Until we figure out a way to get healthcare to everybody, America will be a second-rate nation.

You need to understand however that a Government's job is to balance National Issues. For instance, you can pour all of a Nation's finances into bolstering the Economy, but then National Security suffers as a result. On the other hand, you may pour all funds into interests of National Security, but then the Economy might very well suffer as a result. It is all a balancing act, and dependent upon the times. Right now, tipping the scale towards a National Security biased is of a greater importance.