"It's Like Something Out Of The Third World"

reply to post by Solarskye

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I have paid my National Insurance premiums since I was 17 years old ( I am now 46), so yes I DO pay my way.

Frankly I find your insinuations quite insulting. As a Nurse I would like to think that I give back more than money could buy. There have been many times that I have stayed after a 12 hour shift has ended to care for a seriously ill patient because for whatever reason there was not enough staff or that there were other crtically ill people to look after and then I would be back at work the next day for more of the same.

Bill and Hillary Clinton tried to address the health care crisis in America back in the 90's and were ridiculed by the media and the public, and then voted down by the Republicans. Of course this was going to happen, but back when this situation could have been averted no one cared. We got what the majority of Americans wanted. How do you like it?

Sickening. And it's probably too late to fix this mess now. I no longer care.

Well good for you. You seem to be a good nurse and I applaud your passion. But you do get paid for your services and the times you don't is your choice and you should do it without thinking you deserve more.

Sorry if I upset you but I had to ask. I'm glad you work hard and care for so many in your profession. I still don't like the idea of a National Health Care System. If I need surgery now I just call and make an appointment and get it done. With a NHC system I would be on a waiting list for months. I prefer to pay my own way and my taxes to boot.

reply to post by Solarskye

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That's where you massively miss the point. Suregeries that aren't life threatening might get delayed, and you would still have access to private health care to get it done. we have the best of both worlds. Any life threatenting surgery gets done immediately.

My mother got diagnosed with breast cancer, and within one week she had it removed. In fact her treatment was a new one removing only the sentinel node and not all the nodes in her arm. You can't get better than that. She also had FREE, let me restate that FREE screening for it. I want to emphasis again she would not have known she had it without FREE screening. I rarely capitalise things in my posts but i want to make it clear.

From the inscription on the statue of Liberty:

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Sure looks like it says your tired, your poor, those who want freedom, wretched would have to be the poor (and those are the ones most likely to get sick), and the homeless, to me. I would say that counts as the sick and weak... Can't seem to find anything about wanting the strong so we can kill each other though...

reply to post by BlackOps719

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Great post my friend. I hear a lot of people say that we (US) have the best health care in the world Ive heard it at least 20x in this thread. That is a myth. You people have to get over America is the greatest nation in the world bid because we are not anymore and not even close.

Our education is down and WAYYY down.

We are not a creditor nation we are a debtor nation

Our dollar is worth crap

Athletics we barely compete with the world (Basketball Dream Team for example)

Our infrastructure like roads and bridges are falling into disarray.

All our manufacturing jobs are over seas


Health care is horrid in most aspects example has anyone been to the emergency room lately? You have to wait 3 to 4 hours in an emergency room to get service. Some people have DIED waiting for emergency room service. How many stories have we heard about products and treatments that are used in places like Europe regularly but the FDA wont approve over here. Why? They dont want the competition with big pharma thats why. Why cant we import drugs from Canada that are made in America for much cheaper prices? Once again competition and big pharma and government hates it.

Oh I can go on and on about how screwed our health care is but I think we as Americans need to understand that things arent as great by far as they used to be. Wake up sheeple and realize that our country is going to hell in a handbasket and we all all just sitting back and letting it. But we cant change anything if we continually feel that we are the best in the world and thats that. No that is not that.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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A star for you though you mispelled Roanoke

Yeah this is my neck of the woods, I live in Roanoke and every time they have something like this or a free dental clinic hundreds and hundreds of people show up and always, no matter how they expand the program, people have to be turned away.

What is especially bad in this area in particular the local governments have defaulted on their social services and for all intent and purpose offer none that are not mandated but the state or federal government. They have pawned it all off on underfunded churches and private charities and if you don't have any insurance you are plain out of luck... and god forbid if you fall behind on your rent or utilities, there is nothing out here to help other than a few dollars once a year from the churches so people have to choose a lot of times between their health and a roof over their heads or power and if they choose their health, odds are they will end up with their belongings tossed out onto the streets since eviction here involves putting your belongings out on the curb... and even though you might have nice things, after the sheriff and his men are done, its trash because they expend no effort to protect your things.

It is what a right wing conservative ideology leads to because that is what dominated in Virginia for as long as I can remember and the few liberal and/or Democratic governors we have have been powerless to change things because the right controls the local governments and the legislature.


[edit on 7-8-2008 by grover]

An excellent and detailed article with supporting links to bolster your point:

Bush's Legacy: Third World America

I am sorry to the American ATS members if I sound like I am trying to brainwash you or drum it into your heads about socialised healthcare, but I am very passionate about what I do for a living and of the UK National Health System (NHS).

I know its not perfect, there is not enough money or political will in the world to make a healthcare system perfect but I beleive the NHS is close to it as we can possibly make it.

I would just like to say, dont dismiss a Universal Health System because of what some blinkered people say on the internet - Socialised Medicine is not Communism. Do some research and talk to people who work in those systems or who have benefitted from those systems. Look at the costs and benefits and compare them to your own system and your own circumstances. Just open your eyes and ears.

From Alternet:

"While millions remain uninsured or underinsured, the industry's profits swell. Last year, the top six health insurance companies had combined profits of more than $10 billion. What's amazing is that they netted so much after spending prodigious amounts on marketing and administration. In 2006 Wellpoint alone burned up nearly $9 billion in such costs -- nearly one quarter of what it paid out in actual benefits. By contrast, in Canada's government-run single-payer system, administration accounts for only about 3 percent of total costs."

That is what irks me most. It is called profiting off other human beings misery. I think there is a special place in hell for folks who profit from misery!

The ignorance demonstrated on this thread staggers me.

Nothing is free. Socializing healthcare in the US would be a huge mistake that would cost working America greatly.

Europeans like to bash our healthcare system, but how much taxes do they pay?

Amazingly enough I get to keep most of my money (although far less than I should) when Europeans pay most of their wages in taxes.

Keep your socialism Europe, I am happy to be an American and do it the American way.

Yeah the old I got mine screw you argument... how compassionate.

I suggest that you misunderstand who is the ignorant one.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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These photos and this story need to be published by main source news. Presidential candidates need to be discussing this instead of Paris Hilton. We can blow 10 billion dollars a month on Iraq, where we have no business being, but can't take care of the infirm and needy citizens in our own country. Shameful!

Those who have taken the position here in this post that it's too costly and "socialistic" or even "communistic" to care for the least of these my brethren are shameful as well. I hope you never have a situation beyond your control that leaves your children at death's door because you can't afford care for them. Be careful when you think you stand, lest you fall.

This nation has strayed far away from the path of compassion for the needy I recall used to be our heritage. Under the current neo-con doctrine of "look out for number one, and all others be damned", has brcome our new heritage. A national creed of this type will and certainly is reaping its just recompense. God save us.

Hrmm.... I don't recall seeing "Strong dominate the weak" in the Constitution or any of it's associated documents.

What did I see..

All men are created equal...

Pursuit of Happiness...

Oh yeah.. throwing off oppressive governments etc.


Here is the thing. Our country was not based on paying taxes either, but we do that to support an illegal war in Iraq (1 Bil a day). The LEAST that we the people can do is ensure that we don't have a health crisis that causes the RICH and POWERFUL to die by no fault of their own.


Do you not realize that this is EXACTLY like the housing crisis. It will effect everyone, not just the "lazy deadbeats" as you call them. It will effect me, the guy who owns 2 businesses AND has a full time salaried position with a major corporation.

My wishes as someone who paid over 100K in taxes last year? GET THESE SICK PEOPLE TO A DOCTOR QUICK! Cause I sure don't want to catch it.

i'm australian, and we're taxed according to your income, the higher your income the more tax you pay and vice versa. but i'm curious how do you pay for private health insurance?

Yeah the american way, where we look the other way when there is a social crisis until it effects all of us, like the housing bubble, the credit bubble, etc.

I bet I pay more taxes than you do, and personally this is a social crisis bomb just waiting to blow up in my face. I can image all the people in Atlanta who don't have healthcare just breeding diseases that will inflitrate my affluent neighborhood and bring us all down.

Are you that blind?

Bring on the Soclialized medicine, because this Capitalist pays enough taxes that I should be free from contracting deadly diseases from those who can't afford to be trreated.

reply to post by romanmel

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Do you think it's fair to say that people who don't want the government to take our money (taxes) and give it back to us (NHS), minus whatever they decide to keep are uncompassionate? You don't know how we spend our time or our money. Give me a break. The same people that complain about the cost of the War on Terror have no problem with the COMPLETE disaster that is the War on Poverty. We have been fighting that one for over 40 years and to hear them tell it, we've accomplished nothing. They're right of course. But how many billions of dollars have went to this just cause? And you want the same government that does such a bang up jop taking care of the poor, to take care of all of the rest of us too. If FEDGOV did a good job defeating poverty, we wouldn't need them to provide healthcare now would we?

Not paying for Health Insurance is a choice. I don't know when not having it became a violation of your human rights. Read the report from DOL in my previous post. In 2005 the American "family" spent 5.7% of its income on healthcare. They spent 5.1% on ENTERTAINMENT. I don't see from where all of this hysteria is coming.

ERic

You probably pay more taxes than me, but you want to pay more?

When I was out of work, I was able to find fairly cheap health insurance for myself. I think I paid $56 a month. Was it the best, not really, but at least I was covered if something tragic happened.

Right now I pay less than $200 a month for a wife and two children.

Somehow people have equated pursuit of happiness in the constitution to a right to happiness. These aren't the same thing. America is a country of risk and reward. The world is a hard place. You want a mommy government, go live in the EU. In America I have a lot more freedom. I have lived in europe and I prefer the American way.

In the UK we pay approximately 30% of gross income into taxes, which includes National Insurance (Health Care Insurance). Higher earners that earn over £40,000 per annum pay slightly higher taxes. Basically, the higher you earn, the more you pay in taxation.

I do know however that some of the Nordic countries pay higher taxes than the UK does.

Now do the comparison - Add up what you pay in tax then include your Health Insurance Premium on top.

reply to post by dontreadonme

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I would venture to guess you, as is the case with most, don't pay for the majority of your health care costs out of your own pocket. Most are quite comfortable being a burden to their employers for the majority cost of their coverage. Does this make a more honorable system? You are still a burden to a third party. If you truely believe what you say, you'd tell your employer no on health care coverage and purchase it privately with your own funds thus freeing your employer of this burden. Not likely to catch on, I'd surmise.