"It's Like Something Out Of The Third World"

hmm, well we do have a state/ federal health care system but its for old or disabled and even then; in its limited form, is wasteful, expensive and not very useful.

like when i turned 21 i lost o.t; p.t; had my supplies cut; medical hardware and replacement parts stopped being funded and i almost was sent to a nursing home; but being too young and able-minded; they would've not admitted me anyways. (i'm 26 btw)

so i doubt a full social health care system will do much better unless we turn our country into a centralized social democracy, and i prefer our decentralized constitutional republic, even with its flaws, and i detest any form of "collective" system; even if i die from my ideals' way, i'll never accept socialist assistance.

good intents will be the undoing of us all if we disregard right and jump on the what is best for us bandwagon.

Being paid well does not equate to being a good Doctor or a good Nurse and I think you are deluding yourself if you think that you have the best Doctors/Nurses on the face of this planet.

Since when did a doctors oath and code of ethics to treat and heal the sick at any cost become superseeded by there economic bottom line?

Ever since the meeting between Edgar Kaiser and Richard Nixon. Nixon’s desire to reduce government spending on health care converged with Kaiser’s ambition to make big money through health insurance. Kaiser convinced Nixon that it was possible to make the American public believe that they would get better, quicker care from private for-profit hospitals through insurance than they were getting at that time. Kaiser Permanente, one of the biggest health insurance companies in the USA, has benefited enormously from this deal.

You can thank these 2 lovers of all things expoilted and evil, if your loved one dies from no health care.

I think Its just since we broke treaty after treaty moving them from their home land and placing them is some of the worse pieces of real estate barely viable to raise any crops . And some tribes were force to move to our good neighbors to the north even after they helped liberate the USA from the yoke of the English crown

Iroquois we Took their system of government and used them to help win our freedom them chased them across the boarder . What thanks . At least their cousins get a little free health care

You will never know how true that statement is. Our healthcare system before the 1900's included herbalists, nutritionists, and many other holistic healers. Any medical school that was not based on the German model was forced to shut down before 1924. The people responsible for the closing down of none German model medical schools were Eugenicists. The only recourse most patients in America have against a Doctor who might be a eugenicist is to fire him or her. Socialized medicine will take away Americans rights not to be someone elses lab rat.

This web sight will describe why America has a dangerous medical system.
www.temcat.com/Health Library/medical.htm

Ok buddy, believe what you want

Hmm not sure what to say except i have not had health insurance for like 10 years now. I work out eat good and count on that . Tbh if i do have to g oto the hospital guess what! they can bill me . I am not payign a dime as long as these illegal immigrants get free health care and I got to pay for it hell no . Health care is a basic right for humans think about it . I will say though the obesity problem is out of hand. I live in NC and i am sick of overweight people . You are contributing to the problem . As to the use saying if you can't afford 1000 a month you must be a republican living off of us . If you start a war my friend have your sons and daughters fight it not us democrats .

(warning, tangent approaching)
Ontario and BC are starting to go 2-tiered. Privatising #.
For example, my mom and I moved to Toronto for a year when I was in grade 9.
Her car insurance went from about 1200 a year to over 6000 a year, and that's mainly because ICBC is kept under check because its run partially by the government.
But in Ontario there's a whole bunch of choices for insurance. And guess what? All of them suck. People here don't report accidents because their rates will skyrocket, and because it's a shared-blame system, you could be parked and someone can drive into you and it would be the same penalty as if you drove into a parked car yourself.
Your rates would go higher because someone ELSE hit you.

We went back to Vancouver for a while and now I got dragged out to Ottawa (what a boring town...) and I was really sick one day, we went to the nearest drop in clinic (no doctors are accepting new patients) and it was about noon...and they said, oh sorry, we're too busy, we're closed for the rest of the day (there were only 4 or 5 people waiting) then we drove for half an hour to the closest one (where I was in Vancouver we had 2 within walking distance) and they said, get this, Oh, we don't take BC medical cards. You'll have to pay in cash.
The only place as far as we knew who were ALLOWED to refuse other provinces cards is Quebec, you don't qualify for your provinces health card until you've lived there for 3 months. Long story long, we drove ANOTHER 30 minutes away and waited for an hour and a half (what the hell, I've never waited longer than 30 minutes, even in a god damn emergency room!) only to be precribed some antibiotics which they later called me back and said "oh we were wrong, stop taking it, we don't know whats wrong with you but it's not what we though, k bye"

Omg sorry to hear that . Thats just wrong reminds me of the woman that died in the ER in the US here , Pretty messed up .

I was born and raised in America. I lived the first 25 years of my life there, and for the last 5 years I did I had really, really crappy health-care. When you're a single, early-twenties, working-class person with a high-school diploma and just a few years of college you don't make that much in a small town. I couldn't afford the $500 deductible required before my insurance would cover anything. I lived paycheck to paycheck.

I now live in Canada, and should I require medical treatment I can walk into a clinic or hospital and get it. What does this cost me? 0$ No co-pay, no deductible, and the only question they ask me is, "May I see your health-card?"

Furthermore, 5% less money comes off each paycheck for taxes here than it did when I lived in Wisconsin...and I make more money here. Somehow that doesn't seem right considering what everyone says but I did the math.

And the doctors here really aren't impoverished. You can make a damn good living as a doctor in Canada. A guy my husband grew up with is now a full-time, full-fledged doctor and he's doing this thing now where 2 days a week he goes to small towns around the province with a shortage of doctors to provide treatment to those who need it. Because he does this the health-care system is reimbursing him for the cost of his education. That's right: the government is paying him back the entire cost of what he paid to become a doctor. Not such a bad deal, eh?

A lot of people in this thread have no idea what they're talking about.

ucatlas.ucsc.edu...

Look at what the U.S. spends compared with Canada. And in Canada everyone has health-care. What's the figure? 50 million or so people without health-insurance in the U.S? I bet that's a very conservative estimate. To all of you saying "I don't want our government mismanaging my health-care." Are you serious? Considering what you're already spending?

[edit on 8/6/08 by Malynn]

Hmmmm....my late brother was a doctor in the U.S.- hated HMOs because they were constantly getting in the way of proper treatments for his patients with endless rules and regulations all based on maximizing the bottom line $$$$ - sooo he moved to a state that had great rivers for kyacking and more freedom for his practice - he and a group of other docs went into business together - found a hospital they could work through - his own family's health insurance cost around 2000 per month - he made it a practice not to charge people who literally could not afford his fee - he was an honorable, decent, caring man and he would have been fine with universal health care as long as there were no number crunchers deciding his patients fate against his diagnosis and plan for treatment....I'd back his play any day of the week...

Regarding the posts of In Nothing We trust - I wouldn't take him too seriously - he gets off on pissing off you lot - the angrier you get at him, the happier he is

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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After racking up a huge bill that I can't pay at the local emergency room, I have been diagnosed with Lyme Disease. The presciption is not working. I have no money to see another doctor. No one will take me without payment up-front. I wish I was in Virginia.


[edit on 8/6/0808 by jackinthebox]

If the Health Insurance companies were not making HUGE profits they would lead the fight for better health care...

If they would spend a little for preventive care they could save huge payouts later...

Why do I have to pay a doctor who tells me he doesn't know whats wrong? He didn't fix anything... he may have said "Try this stuff and see me in two weeks and we will see what happens" Probably a kick back from the "Stuff" manufacturer...

Why did I make an appointment for 2 PM and don't get seen till 5 PM? Is he billing the insurance companies for those three hours?

Why do we allow doctors to serve 4-6 patients at the same time on a rotation thing? Isn't 600.00 an hour enough? Is he billing the companies for 10 minutes per person or is he billing the same hour 4-6 times?

Maybe that is why you wait three hours

We don't need socialized medicine, we need a FAIR system.

I was at a medical convention here recently... they were selling this new surgery tool... made of plastic with a little metal tip for cauterizing (sealing) blood vessels...

Looks about maybe 5.00 in material... cost price to the doctor? 895.00 EACH.. they are plastic so cannot be cleaned and must be tossed out after one use...

Totally out of control....

My neighbor had to take his wife to the Emergency room... He has full union coverage... but he had a 6 hour wait because all the illegals that were filling the waiting room had signed in first...

So unless you wealthy enough to afford a private clinic... the system here SUCKS and Nevada even passed a law that we are not allowed to buy cheaper generic brands from Canada (I think that has been pulled now... but they made it)

Hmmm tough one that... 'tired, poor, and huddled masses' are certainly a lot easier to control than 'strong and free spirited'

The solution is Mccain!!!

Free markets will save us all !


Obama did this damn that Muslim!

Kill all the EVIL socialist terrorist lovers!

NASCAR and mullets for all!!



[edit on 7-8-2008 by mental modulator]

[edit on 7-8-2008 by mental modulator]

reply to post by zorgon

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I wouldn't disagree, and it does pose an interesting question; however, I was speaking more to the notion of the "dream" that our country was founded upon.

I'm not so sure that "dominating the weak" was the ideal that the founding fathers had invisioned. As for what our country has become... well... everyone has their own opinions.

The dream may be just that; a dream.

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The notion of a truly free market flew out the window with no-bid contracts filling the void.

I have no doubts that Mccain would continue that status quo.

[edit on 8/7/08 by redmage]

May i take the liberty to bring up an old thread of mine?

The NHS - Some Praise Deserved

For all you people saying that socialsed medicine isn't any good, or that it's a communist idea, or that it's only for the lazy, jobless idiots out there. Please think again. Health insurance doesn't cover everything, the whole basis of a health insurance company is to try and make money. To do that the logical thing is to try and not to pay out on insurance claims. Furthermore many insurance companies only cover you up to a certain cost per illness, i know that because i looked into insurance years ago.

Socialised medicine is a wonder. My mother couldn't have afforded health insurance (and yes my family work thank you). She got breast cancer and what saved her was free screening at the hospital for anyone of her age and the free treatment. If that free screening hadn't been there then she would probably have not found that cancer until it was very progressed as it was a soft fleshy lump that even the doctor couldn't find by touch.

Care for your fellow human beings, you will get more out of a national healthcare system than you put in, i promise you.

Well, we were here before the illegal aliens, yet we're paying fully for their health care as well. Got any thoughts or comments to that one?

We don't need socialist healthcare, we need to establish laws for companies like Wal-Mart, Mc Donalds, that have thousands of employees, that don't offer any real health care. I once heard a WalMart manager tell a woman " If you want health care call the welfare office." then he pulled a few cards from his posket with their number on it and the person to talk to.
If all employers had to offer basic health care, and health care was made to be less expensive, then it could cure our lack of.

reply to post by patrickrpg

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I wish I could star that twice.

Most excellent point. Companies have a reponsibility to their workers.

I happen to be homeless right now. My boss owns some bottom of the barrle apartments. Yet he still doesn't pay me enough to actually rent one of those apartments, much less have any money left over to eat or pay other expenses even if I did.