"It's Like Something Out Of The Third World"

"Socialized" healthcare is unconstitutional. The feds have no power under Article 1 Section 8 to use any public funds for healthcare, let alone in a socialized model.

reply to post by Scorched Earth

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Ahh, a dilemma. D: At least statewide health care, then?

reply to post by LiquidTheBrit0

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States can do whatever they want as long as such an expenditure is authorized by their individual state Constitutions.

Nothing more than another income redistribution scheme.

Likely they'll just implement another payroll tax then, like medicare and social security.

Like to pay your bills by going to work everyday?

Good

Now 50% of your paycheck will go to pay tax.

Stupid and useless jobs will disappear, driving up the unemployment rate, and manditory service sector jobs will pay more to keep skilled workers from sabotaging the infrastructure and security system.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by In nothing we trust]

Hmmmm, I always thought that the Statue of Liberty, a recognized symbol of our "great democracy", said something along the lines of...

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land"

And...

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me"

So we wanted all of these tired, poor, and huddled masses just so that we could dominate them, or so that we could nurture them and offer something "better"?

[edit on 8/6/08 by redmage]

you have issues

Obviously some bad genes slipped into the pool.

The population has become inbred and weak, now they must be dominated to keep them in line.



It was the socialist French who sent us that damn statue.

Bring it down and sell it to China to pay on the national debt,
Replace it with that Greek one, "The Colossus of Rhodes"



[edit on 6-8-2008 by In nothing we trust]

Some are talking about close to a trillion dollars to bail out the banks after making ill advised loans.

Ofcourse they are willing to bail out the wealthy and their investments but not the working poor when their lives are on the line.

A fraction of that housing bailout would provide healthcare for all!!

That is an oversimplification of the health care system. The concern is that the government will have a monopoly over the system and will degrade prices so heavily that it will destroy the pay that doctors have, and thus we will lose good doctors and future doctors. THAT is the line of thought, and to say what you have just said only shows how ignorant you are on how the system works. How do you think the government is going to pay for socialized medicine? Look at the debt that has mounted in Social Security, Medicade and Medicaid, we DON'T need any more social programs, with those programs ALONE it pushes our debt to ~60 Trillion. I don't understand your thought process and lack of understanding of a capitalist system and simple economics.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by yellowcard]

reply to post by yellowcard

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Whats your suggestion then? Im not for national healthcare but on the same note what we have now is not working either. The free market is not free. Instead you have collusion among big health care and the doctors. These high prices are not because of lawsuits. This is greed.

Haha, are you people insane?

Something is offered FOR FREE, and a bunch of overweight, unemployed rednecks show up for FREE STUFF, and you yell that our health care system is broken?

Mmkay...

The main issue with the health care system is that not enough people have it, so the cost is passed onto the people who do have it (economies of scale), and it makes entering the system near impossible for lower incomes. I would suggest something like Mitt Romney proposed, he actually had a very good health care solution, as much as I hate mandates...his solution would have worked. State wide systems are what should be implemented not a federal system. I would love to see a system that says that when you buy a policy the company must issue a certain percentage of your coverage in stock to you. So then you would be given an incentive to be healthy, because you would want the stock to go up and the company would have an incentive to keep you satisfied because if you leave the system then the company must buy back the stock. That would be a very simple system and we would have to create a separate market for healthcare providers...but, in the end, America is fat and very unhealthy. The lack of insurance wouldn't be as big of an issue if this weren't the case, so we NEED a system that give both the insurance company AND the purchaser an incentive to keep healthy. If anything the state governments could use tax money to pay for a yearly check up for all residence. That would vastly cut down on health issues...there are a lot of things that could be done without the use of a Federal System.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by yellowcard]

reply to post by yellowcard

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Hmm interesting. I agree America is fat and unhealthy for the most part. Lets throw uneducated in there also. But as far as the fat and unhealthy part I think alot of that is because of the economic boom we have had people have been maxing out on food. Capitalist pig as they say. Now that we are in a bust period I think you will start to see people lose some weight. Health is another issue. As I pointed out on the first page our government is forcing us into this globalized economy and if we are to compete in this world I think we should be well educated and well taken care of as far as health. A federal system will not work maybe the states can do something but its an ugly deal and they way it is not is not good. I pay $750 a mo and I have a 2k deductible. Disgusting.

This Health careless system totally Sucks !! I work in construction as a foreman . We have Native Americans working for us they can go to the Dr with a 1/2 day wait. seems the last time I had the money to go it was the same time frame the PHS used by native Americans is a form of a socialized medicine these people get far better care than i can pay for .

I have gotten hurt out of the USA construction miss hap and in another a car accident . The treatment in Canada was far better in kindness and compassion than here in the state. And honestly a hospital in Juarez Mexico I felt more comfortable and cared for than in my home town in The USA .

And it didn't cost me a arm and a leg either . It cost me less and honestly It seemed to be better care . The stitches are not even noticeable at all even where pins were put in . Calling for a nurse for aid to help get me up to go to the can it was almost instantaneous in either Canada or Mexico . Here I swear after a 1 1/2 to 2 hr I had get up on newly made cast hobble to the can to do my duty and when i was done got yelled at by the nurse for not waiting . Real care there isnt it . I broke horses when a teen rode rodeo off road dirt bike racing ride street bikes oil field 10 years construction the last 20 I am no stranger to going to the hospital for broken bones lacerations road rash . If I EVER have to go to the hospital for a emergency GOD I hope its in Canada or Mexico .

When we had a major named hmo my daughter had some serious health issues . Seizors Grand Maw hardly could go to school the hmo didn't want to cover it nor spend money for tests they professed hole handedly she was doing meth or coke . Even after drug tests were done and they were negative . We did what we could to go out side the hmo but it costs a fortune for a neurologist with out insurance . Fast Forward 4 years She moved out went to county health in the town she was going to college in . And low and behold the Drs there found out she had a cavernous anginoma which was defiantly causing the seizors. It is known that they do pop and kill the person . I could have lost my daughter because of some money grubbing pin headed pencil pusher didnt want to spend the money to pay for the tests .

The company I work for had to drop health care now I make too much for public health care but cant afford to pay for it my self

Its Broke and non of these politicians will fix it . I would gladly spend more in taxes for decent health care

reply to post by yellowcard

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I think you may not quite know how a ''socialised healthcare system'' works.

UK for example:- THE NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE (NHS)

Each taxpayer pays about 12% of the gross salary into a National Insurance fund to the Goverment. This is taken out at source if you are an employee.

The Goverment pays for the hospitals and ALL the staff. It pays for the medications and treatments and research and equipment.

Each person is normally registered with a local General Practitioner that looks after your ailments and anything non-hospital, much like yours in the US do.

Anything that is found that is serious, you can then choose the consultant and hospital to which you can get your treatment. Any A&E (ER) type stuff is the first/nearest hospital available to the accident.

All of this care is from Cradle to the Grave. Whilst in full-time education it is completely free as is once you are retired. Some prescription medications you do have to pay for though it is quite cheap (some would say otherwise).

Pharmacutical Companies have no say in the healthcare system in the UK. They have to compete for tenders with each other for contracts.

All of this is overseen by the Department of Health (DoH), in turn overseen by the Health Secretary an elected Member of Parliment of the ruling Government.

In addition, there are several independant watchdogs and Professional Bodies that monitor the healthcare system.

You can of course pay privately for private healthcare, but you dont get a tax rebate of your National Insurance payments. Most of the private healthcare Doctors are also NHS Doctors.

I hope that has explained a few things.

Oh yeah, I forgot about them. We pay for thier FREE healthcare as well.

And so you bloody well should. They were there before you were.

the american health care system can easily be like the canadian system.

I pay 35% income tax in Canada.

People fear that the doctors will bill the government unfairly.

but in canada there is no HMO's making billions in profit.

Eliminate the HMO's and a taxpayer funded healthcare system is feasible.

MY wife had her appendix removed... no debt for me

MY son broke his arm twice... no debt for me

My wife had her gall bladder removed... no debt for me

My wife had a hysterectomy... no debt for me.... But I got a totally rebuilt wife..lol

Point being....we never have to worry about health. Statistically wise Canada also does better than the US in preventive health care also.

Don't get rightous here Lady. We're trying to bring down our government.

I know perfectly well how socialized health care works, and I know perfectly well why people having major operations in other countries seek medical attention at Cleveland Clinic, Vanderbilt and others. It's because we have the finest doctors, and we have them for a reason.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by yellowcard]