Mental illness is something that can effect anyone at any time, including everyone here on ATS, it comes in many many forms, and often goes unrecognized until it is too late, its all fine and dandy shouting kill the man, but what if it happened to you? or a close member of your family? would you be so willing to scream kill them? either your a liar and answer yes you would, or you can be honest and say no or you dont know.

i promise each and every one knows someone who is right this moment suffering from a kind of mental illness, every single one of us, our tendency is to help the ones we care for when we find out, unless your an immature child with no understanding for the fragility of the Human mind.

Perhaps this man does deserve to be executed, im not judge and jury, and neither are any of you, im so far from being a christian as you can get, but i use their words, let he who is free from sin cast the first stone, and offer a tin hat to nobody, because nobody can, everyone deserves the right to be heard, and all of us live expecting to be allowed to be heard.

God will judge him, but his request for death should be granted, he cannot be rehabilitated. And if he is thrown in jail he'll probably commit suicide anyway.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Teeky]

With all the countless beheadings within the last year, including of a toddler, I think theres something up, don't you? Something very ominous. While the little guys need to be held accountable, and I am very pleased that my country does not have capital punishment as its barbaric, I also believe that there are countless Bloodlines behind the scenes that need to be brought to justice and power given back to the people. This is too much of a coincidence for me and I suspect massive MC. And given that, the guilt is going to be spread around by alot of corrupt elite, who are attempting to entrench, via terror and fear, nwo securities. Well, they must be truly brought to justice as well as the perpetrators.

Place him in a bullet proof room, with an open revolver and a single bullet.

Let him decide if he wants to rest.

Its funny, this guy would have been a general in the days of Ghengis. Raping pillaging beheading. He was just born a couple thousand years too late.

Originally posted by RUFFREADY
hes a piece of crap that should be put in a wood chipper. IMHO

I can't believe you folks that defend this puke. Kill him now. IMHO

He needs to slowly go in the wood chipper feet first! xD

Originally posted by Sonya610

The guy was absolutely nuts! You think the fact that he stored human body parts in his POCKET while a crowd of people were surrounding the bus and the police were coming shows he was NOT CRAZY???

No, no.. you've got me backwards. I actually meant by the fact that he had removed body parts and ate some while also keeping some in a baggie so long after the actual killing of Mclean himself, lent itself to the concept that the man was actually quite sane and doing such things perhaps as a tactic to make people think he was freaking OUT THERE .. you know, to not chase him if he escapes, for example. That's in regards to passengers and passers-by, not the police, whom are armed ... right? Canada has armed officers I hope? USA does?

So I was presenting a case of cannibalism by intent and intimidation via desecration of corpse and also cannibalism, by intent. Not insane .. sane.

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
[You are basing this on a TV understanding of insanity. We also don't know if it wasn't something he took or was given to him while on the bus that made him crazy.

no I'm not, don't be so presumptious as to how or why I base my "understanding"

Quite simply, the guy has done something so heinous as to forfeit his right to life, regardless of permanent or "temporary" insanity

Insanity in legal terms is a bit different from the TV understanding of Crazy, Psychopath and the like. It isn't something easy to plead. But it means you are not possessed of your normal faculties and cannot be held guilty.

And of course, I understand that to bring this up, goes against the very pillars of personal responsibility and other manly things. It gives ammo to every dabbler in Libertarianism who does a quick rant for 30 seconds on the "liberal court systems." It also ruins a lot of court cases, for people suing because some corporation wronged them because these "mad killer" cases seem to be the only thing discussed about civil liberties.

It really sucks to have to defend such a heinous crime. But you either recognize Insanity based upon the state of mind of the person or you don't. What that person did shouldn't have bearing on the merits of this principle. And I do fully contend, that there is an obligation of safety to society -- so you have to know if this is some intrinsic problem with the person or a chemical that induced insanity.

I'm not saying that YOU are using a "tv understanding" --- however, obviously SOMEWHERE we are getting this notion; "liberal courts handing out freedom to everyone who pretends to be wacky." Decide for yourself if the boot fits.


And the term isn't "presumptuous" anymore -- it's Uppity

[edit on 6-8-2008 by VitriolAndAngst]

Canada doesn't experience this kind of mahem, sorry. And having followed the news for years, there has never been a year with this kind of thing before. Just when they want to take away even more of our rights too. Before this happened, they had an incident in the subway where 6 people mysteriously died from some sort of "disease" (unheard of!). They had a report on the news about the transit system in Vancouver and how many cameras were installed but that wouldn't protect you once you left the station. They kept repeating this in such an odd manner that I wrote to them about it, and told them that they had made me alert by their handling. Were we supposed to be so concerned for our safety that we embrace the microchip for example?
If this is MC, then only a small fraction of the murderers have truly been apprehended. I want them all caught. Truly I do!

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst


I'm more concerned with the damage that White Collar criminals do to society than the odd rabid dog.

this is a nonsense, punish the white collar criminals appropriately (clearly they do not deserve the same sentence as someone who beheads and eats a fellow human)- just because I support the execution of this dude (I really do not see how "studying" will prevent anything in the future- in 100 years some evil/crazy *delete as you feel appropriate* fella will do something unspeakably evil, and all the studies in the world will never stop it) does not mean I somehow do not agree with punishing corporate/financial crime

Ultimately i would always fear getting decapitated more than getting financially scammed....

White collar criminals harm MORE people. Also, deterrence actually works in this case. Beheading embezzler's and cheats from ENRON would have sent a powerful message.

Please, it takes a lot of planning and a true act of malice to rob a pension fund. If we lose a few executives -- what is the harm?

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst


I'm more concerned with the damage that White Collar criminals do to society than the odd rabid dog.

this is a nonsense, punish the white collar criminals appropriately (clearly they do not deserve the same sentence as someone who beheads and eats a fellow human)- just because I support the execution of this dude (I really do not see how "studying" will prevent anything in the future- in 100 years some evil/crazy *delete as you feel appropriate* fella will do something unspeakably evil, and all the studies in the world will never stop it) does not mean I somehow do not agree with punishing corporate/financial crime

Ultimately i would always fear getting decapitated more than getting financially scammed....

Thank you. I was gonna wait to see if anyone else pointed out the insanity in this comment.

Hmmmm...... guy hacks at, decapitates, cuts up, eats kid AND flaunts it, but lets give him the benefit of the doubt and go after the ppl that work and make something for themselves. Grab your pitchforks and torches folks............ we have some REAL sickos to go after, damn white collared bastards

>> I'm pretty much against the death penalty. But I'm showing the absurdity in regards to the "damage done." George Bush ordered America to go to war and as a consequence, 4,000 US troops are dead and 100,000+ Iraqis. ENRON did not kill as many, but I assure you, more people die due to not having the air conditioning or heating working than all natural disasters combined in the US. The CONSEQUENCE of rational thoughts, kills far more people than irrational.

John Wayne Gasey, more personally disgusting, but way behind on impact, had killed many people. In his case, I could not say he was truly INSANE because he took steps to conceal his activity. No matter how outside the norm we see it, or whatever squirms in this man's head -- he has a rational mind. He can avoid running in front of a bus, and put lime on the bodies to make them decompose.

The man on this bus did nothing of the sort. After his "spell", he showed true remorse and disbelief at what he had done. We also need to know more details and back story to really make a good judgement here.

Of course what I said was a "little" over the top -- but there are a lot of assumptions, that I constantly here about guilt, and crime, and "damages" that are based upon oft repeated rhetoric -- and I'm trying to point out that the underlying assumptions of "who is the greater threat," are bogus. You are far more in danger, statistically, from the decisions of someone commanding our armed forces, or making decisions at a Pharmaceutical company than you are from terrorism or crazy people.

However, there may be more harm from crazy people than we know, because something like 600,000 people go missing each year, and about 150,000 of those are unexplained. So we may have an epidemic of crazy -- which means there is even more reason to do some tests on these people.

If the guy is likely to do it again. Then throw away the key. But I'm talking about a very likely case of drugs that turned this guy psycho -- which could happen to any of us, if we came in contact with these pyschotropic drugs.

Originally posted by runetang
No, no.. you've got me backwards. I actually meant by the fact that he had removed body parts and ate some while also keeping some in a baggie so long after the actual killing of Mclean himself, lent itself to the concept that the man was actually quite sane and doing such things perhaps as a tactic to make people think he was freaking OUT THERE .. you know, to not chase him if he escapes, for example. That's in regards to passengers and passers-by, not the police, whom are armed ... right? Canada has armed officers I hope? USA does?

Look, its like this. If he was sane (as in not hallucinating) and he happened to like stabbing people and eating them he would want to be able to DO IT AGAIN.

He would at least have the most rudimentary plan of NOT being arrested so that he could enjoy similar experiences in the future. His enjoyment of such experiences would not involve incarcernation, and in this situation that was inevitable.

He was NOT sane. His actions were way way over the top. Can you understand what I am saying here?